[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Skyrant_Kangaroomouse]

Beast Master was insanely powerful with their super cricket out. I was watching them slaughter normal difficulty avatars faster than a full group and clearing an entire screen full of incredibly toughs in a matter of seconds. So unless they have decreased the power of your pets since I've been away: something did need to happen. They were over-powered. There is just no denying that. Having that kind of damage coupled with the survivability of your pet while being able to stand safely out of the range of area attacks was God-mode. That's why everyone and their mother started leveling a beast master.

Also: every other melee dps on this game faces the dilemma of being killed by area attacks. This is nothing new: so it seems to me from reading this that Beast Master is just having to deal with the same crap every other melee class on this game has to.

I don't play Beast Master. Maybe the range is too small. I'm not saying it isn't. But some changes were necessary.

This change is like reducing the fuel tank of a super car because it goes too fast.
It sure did not change the fact that we still have the super cricket and can still do what we did before. I still laugh at all the melee trying to do as much damage as i do. You all still suck compared to a well geared BST.

The only thing the change did was make it annoying to play the job. So annoying that it is not fun any more. I settle for a 10 yalm range, but not this ridiculous 5 yalm nonsense.

[Dale]

This change is like reducing the fuel tank of a super car because it goes too fast.
It sure did not change the fact that we still have the super cricket and can still do what we did before. I still laugh at all the melee trying to do as much damage as i do. You all still suck compared to a well geared BST.

The only thing the change did was make it annoying to play the job. So annoying that it is not fun any more. I settle for a 10 yalm range, but not this ridiculous 5 yalm nonsense.

Perhaps.

My point is Beast Master was over-powered and it needed to be changed in some way. As I've stated: this may or may not have been the correct way to go about doing it. I've already conceded that. So that's not really a debate I'm interested in having. I'll let people who actually play the job hash that one out.

My objection is for those who suggest the job was fine and no changes were necessary. Because it was not fine and changes did need to happen. It was ridiculously over-powered.

So while it might be true we still all suck when compared to you: at least now you actually have to worry about area attacks and damage the way the rest of us melee jobs do.

[Olor]

Perhaps.

My point is Beast Master was over-powered and it needed to be changed in some way.

No, it was not. It was not. Seriously. Please show me the math where a BST was out damaging other DD jobs. They aren't. They weren't. Everything BST was doing could be done by other jobs. Just differently. Being able to do something differently that other jobs can still complete is not OP. SERIOUSLY. Being occasionally invited to a few endgame events for the first time in 13 years is NOT OP.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

No, it was not. It was not. Seriously. Please show me the math where a BST was out damaging other DD jobs. They aren't. They weren't. Everything BST was doing could be done by other jobs. Just differently. Being able to do something differently that other jobs can still complete is not OP. SERIOUSLY. Being occasionally invited to a few endgame events for the first time in 13 years is NOT OP.

Being able to do so in a way you guarantee success with absolutely no risk is OP. Don't get me wrong though, this was NOT the way to go about fixing that.

[Olor]

Being able to do so in a way you guarantee success with absolutely no risk is OP.

Good thing that never happened. Seriously - people need to stop lying about BST.

[detlef]

Uh, are you sure that never happened? In my experience, it happened.

[Olor]

Uh, are you sure that never happened? In my experience, it happened.

Really? Please do show me an event where a BST never ever failed, not once.

[Ataraxia]

Being able to do so in a way you guarantee success with absolutely no risk is OP. Don't get me wrong though, this was NOT the way to go about fixing that.

It seem like your someone who hasn't been playing FFXI for a long time and have not explore all the job carefully. Did you know that Ranger and Blm are safe job? They have always been like that for a very long time. BST was the same way for the past 12 years. With current September update SMN is now a safe job with that boost to range.



Here are links i like to share with everyone and Akihiro Matsui.

FFXI Yorcia Weald Delve 1-5 + Boss (4 people) March 14, 2015. Amazing Video but BST can't do 99,999 dmg like SMN. clear time is 12 minute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvqyMyZM1qY


FFXI Incursion Level 135 Vanquisher Gramk-Droog March 28, 2014. Bard and SMN can keep any DD from getting one shot with Sentinel's Scherzo and Earthen Armor. If that had been BST pet even if you're well gear it probably take tons of damage, be difficult to keep it alive with reward, and die.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXnD9w8XDz0



I save the best for last. FFXI - SCH Kamihr Delve Solo (1-5 + Utkux) May 11, 2015. 37 minute clear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UQwlVQ-M8c

This very same person Mischief17 can solo all Delve zone 1-5 + Boss without trust. The toughest zone is Kamihr Delve and for him to solo it was amazing Taru and very skilled. People should respect all Taru because they aren't a Joke. Dev Team should hire these people because they slow everyone the way to play FFXI to it's fullest.




Now ask yourself a question can BST do this solo? HELL NO! If they can than i like to see some evidence videos. All job do amazing things when you got a Cor, Brd, Geo, Rdm around to help. I do not like to see any Nerf to any more job but I like to see other job improve and close the cap to be good in a unique way. Make sure you go earn your 1200 job points stop hating and show BST some love and learn how to play your job. =)

[Dale]

No, it was not. It was not. Seriously. Please show me the math where a BST was out damaging other DD jobs. They aren't. They weren't. Everything BST was doing could be done by other jobs. Just differently. Being able to do something differently that other jobs can still complete is not OP. SERIOUSLY. Being occasionally invited to a few endgame events for the first time in 13 years is NOT OP.

No offense Olor, but you're bias. You play the job and just don't want to admit it was too powerful. I can understand that. No one likes to be nerfed.

But the truth is you was out damaging other DD jobs. You was also out-tanking them for that matter; and soloing notorious monsters faster and easier than entire groups could and doing it all while safely staying out of range.

A lot of jobs aren't invited to endgame events. So that's not really a valid reason as to why they should get to be so powerful either.

Way I see it: there were two ways SE could begin to address this issue:

1. Tone down your super pets so you didn't have such crazy damage + survivability.

2. Force you to fight up close like other melee jobs so you are susceptible to area attacks.

They went with option 2 it looks like.

That being said: the range should be increased to the point Beast Masters can comfortably melee with their pets out. If you are on the monster's ass yet still can't issue a command - I'll happily concede that's a real problem and sounds annoying no doubt about it.

[bazookatooth]

No offense Olor, but you're bias. You play the job and just don't want to admit it was too powerful. I can understand that. No one likes to be nerfed.

But the truth is you was out damaging other DD jobs. You was also out-tanking them for that matter; and soloing notorious monsters faster and easier than entire groups could and doing it all while safely staying out of range.

A lot of jobs aren't invited to endgame events. So that's not really a valid reason as to why they should get to be so powerful either.

Way I see it: there were two ways SE could begin to address this issue:

1. Tone down your super pets so you didn't have such crazy damage + survivability.

2. Force you to fight up close like other melee jobs so you are susceptible to area attacks.

They went with option 2 it looks like.

That being said: the range should be increased to the point Beast Masters can comfortably melee with their pets out. If you are on the monster's ass yet still can't issue a command - I'll happily concede that's a real problem and sounds annoying no doubt about it.

He might be biased, but he's also correct. Do the math or Google it. There are spreadsheets available if you don't want to figure it out on your own. It's a fact. BST pets were never the best DDs. Get it out of your head. No matter how many time you say it, it will never be true. If you saw a bst pet doing better damage it's because that bst is better than other players. Not because the job is better. If geared and played at the same level with the same buffs, other jobs can easily out damage BST. This isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of game mechanics. Your opinion can't change the way the game works. That's just how it is. There is nothing to discuss on this front.

The only thing you should be discussing is survival, because that's the only thing unique about BST pets. It has to do with their HP. Because a pet can only be healed once ever 52 seconds or something like that (Without pooping money) a normal player can actually be healed for more damage over time. But, because a pet has high HP it can survive large AOE moves or breaks in healing without dieing. That's it. That's what needs to be brought to scale with players. In my opinion they could do that in various ways, but this nerf wasn't one of them. Personally, I think they need to raise player HP and defensive capabilities and lower pets HP somewhat to meet in the middle more. It's pretty stupid that you have to have a GEO and a WHM for all content that isn't soloable.