[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Singforu]

And this is what I mean. As if it matters where I sip my tea. I do the exact same amount of moving around and button pressing on BST as I do on Monk or Samurai. Stand in front of the NM sipping my tea, pressing the WS macro over and over. You act like where other jobs are standing somehow changes the fact that they are doing nothing but hitting the WS macro over and over.

"Oh... You stand over there and press your button, but I stand over here and press my button... It's WAYYYY harder to press your button over here..."

One involves getting hit, one does not. I know this might be hard for you to understand, but there are people who do use damage taken sets and the difference between the two situations is one of them, you don't have to.

[Kensagaku]

One involves getting hit, one does not. I know this might be hard for you to understand, but there are people who do use damage taken sets and the difference between the two situations is one of them, you don't have to.

While you're not incorrect, therein lies the big problem for BST, being the only true pet job that is in close range after this update. Damage Taken sets are a thing, but by loading yourself up with Damage Taken so you don't die, your pet becomes vulnerable. BST has the second longest pet recall time (Dragoon has it worse, but our wyverns have plenty of defensive bonuses to make them a bit more survivable), and if your pet is dying faster, that's that much longer that you're completely non-viable as a damage dealer while they're down. BST's -only- role is as a damage dealer, and if we have to be in range to deal damage, we need to be able to receive it in a way that makes us viable. Basically, we need to be able to handle our primary problem of gearing for two people at once.

I'm not against having to be in range to fight. I like the "easy mode" as it were, but I don't have a problem moving into range. I have sets for when I need to engage too. But then if I'm gearing for myself, my pet suffers. If I don't swap my offhand axe for Charmer's Merlin, my Ready timer increases by 50% (from 10->15), and that lowers my overall DPS significantly. If I do swap my offhand axe, then I lose TP every time I use a Ready move, meaning that I can't weaponskill and that I'm basically there to do minimal white damage. If I gear for my own accuracy, my pet loses accuracy. If I gear for my pet's accuracy, I can't hit anything. The problem, again is "gearing for two." If they can address this issue, then I think the problem with having to be in range is severely mitigated.

[bazookatooth]

One involves getting hit, one does not. I know this might be hard for you to understand, but there are people who do use damage taken sets and the difference between the two situations is one of them, you don't have to.

Ready move's require the use of gear that has no DT- for the master. Some of them aren't even iLVL. Same goes for idle sets. Nothing you can do about that with currently available gear. Try again.

[Kensagaku]

Ready move's require the use of gear that has no DT- for the master. Some of them aren't even iLVL. Same goes for idle sets. Nothing you can do about that with currently available gear. Try again.

It would probably help the discussion if you weren't so aggressive about this across multiple threads. I am a BST too as one of my primary jobs, and I don't like the nerf either, but we have to move forward and work towards discussions in which we can make ourselves more viable, not just shoot one another down. Why don't we work on finding ways to improve our upcoming issues, and build up a list of possibilities for the community reps to pass on for examination? While I know it's not likely that the devs will listen to the US/EU complaints, it couldn't hurt to try a more proactive stance.

[bazookatooth]

It would probably help the discussion if you weren't so aggressive about this across multiple threads. I am a BST too as one of my primary jobs, and I don't like the nerf either, but we have to move forward and work towards discussions in which we can make ourselves more viable, not just shoot one another down. Why don't we work on finding ways to improve our upcoming issues, and build up a list of possibilities for the community reps to pass on for examination? While I know it's not likely that the devs will listen to the US/EU complaints, it couldn't hurt to try a more proactive stance.

This is from the first page. But that doesn't stop the person above from insinuating that I could just wear DT- gear and everything would be fine (while attempting to insult my intelligence at the same time).

BST have to choose. Def or atk or acc on either pet or themselves, and only one really of those six variables up at a time.

I thought I was pretty nice all things considered. If you browse back through the thread, you'll find that Myself and other's have made several suggestions as to how to fix things. I can multi-task.

[Alhanelem]

Ready move's require the use of gear that has no DT- for the master. Some of them aren't even iLVL. Same goes for idle sets. Nothing you can do about that with currently available gear. Try again.

One of the problems with horizontal progression is having otherwise weak items that you still need even in lategame for a particular effect or ability.

[Elexia]

One of the problems with horizontal progression is having otherwise weak items that you still need even in lategame for a particular effect or ability.

Indeed. I'd take this over throwing away everything I worked for within a month or two for yet another similar item with the same set of stats+7 on it though.

[Alhanelem]

Indeed. I'd take this over throwing away everything I worked for within a month or two for yet another similar item with the same set of stats+7 on it though.

There's pros and cons. It also means I don't see a new event or new fight come out that has no items I want from it, as has happened frequently over the years. As long as there's a way to get the look though, I'm good (Something FFXI has only had for a relatively short time).

The best part about the horizontal style is, as you alluded, variety. Loot is more fun when you have to look at different pieces and compare them to see what works best for you (vs knowing the next thing is always going to be better and by the same amount). In this regard FFXI is pretty much without equal.

The best part about a more vertical system (for me, anyway), is less inventory frustration from not needing 132 sidegrade items to be swapped a dozen of them in and out at a time for each ability I have. Balance is simpler as well.

The best thing ever would be something in between, with a lot of statistical variety but also a more straightforward sense of progression. I don't think these things are mutually exlcusive- Post audolin XI has somewhat tread into this territory by use of item level, but only on certain gear slots. While some people don't seem to like this, it clicks pretty well with me.

[bazookatooth]

There's pros and cons. It also means I don't see a new event or new fight come out that has no items I want from it, as has happened frequently over the years. As long as there's a way to get the look though, I'm good (Something FFXI has only had for a relatively short time).

The best part about the horizontal style is, as you alluded, variety. Loot is more fun when you have to look at different pieces and compare them to see what works best for you (vs knowing the next thing is always going to be better and by the same amount). In this regard FFXI is pretty much without equal.

The best part about a more vertical system (for me, anyway), is less inventory frustration from not needing 132 sidegrade items to be swapped a dozen of them in and out at a time for each ability I have. Balance is simpler as well.

The best thing ever would be something in between, with a lot of statistical variety but also a more straightforward sense of progression. I don't think these things are mutually exlcusive- Post audolin XI has somewhat tread into this territory by use of item level, but only on certain gear slots. While some people don't seem to like this, it clicks pretty well with me.

True. Something as crucial as an axe or legs that increase your pet's damage output by 50-100% shouldn't have been overlooked when it came time to make iLvl gear. It's really telling when items that are that important to a job's functionality are completely overlooked. I'm not sure if SE ignored those pieces because they wanted BST to suck or if they just don't plan / test things well. Both prospects are pretty disheartening.