[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[bazookatooth]

You start with "it's not even efficiency" but then you write a long description of how you got a party to vastly increase it's efficiency. Wat?

Personally I'm happy to use any combination of party members that can beat the fight. I care little for the amount of time taken per run (as long as we don't time out or almost time out). I feel like a lot of people have forgotten how to have fun.

They're saying that people are just picking X job over all others just because they saw / heard someone else win with it and they never try anything else. They just go with what everyone else does. Not because it's actually the most efficient, but because they saw / heard it worked and decided it must be the best if other people did it. The point of the story about making the party more efficient was to point out that people were trying to do everything with RNG because they don't think for themselves and just did what someone before them did, when they could have done it better using other jobs.

[Allestra]

At this stage of the game (its end basically), its not too bright of se to nerf any job imo.

Its not like ffxi is going strong, and it will only continue to decline when there are no new content updates, I think they need to sit back and see what will encourage ppl to continue to subscribe not what will piss people off.

Just the reality of things.

[Bizniztyme]

Maybe. I fail to see how any other DD job is different though. Samurais and monks and wars stand in one spot and hit weapon skill macros. Bsts do the exact same thing only from a different spot. It's not like any of the jobs move around very much during a fight other than maybe SMN, bard or thf. I'm not sure why BST doing that should be some indication of skill or lack there of.

We are not talking about any other DD jobs. we are talking about BST. Also, it does take some kind of skill to time when you run in to use your JAs or whatever. To some it's going to be easy but I can guarantee to you it will be hard for others. Look at the QQ in this thread alone. One bad move and you could be dead, especially when you're soloing and that's what BST has always been known to do.

If we're all just pressing buttons (like every game every played in existence), Why are there good and bad players? We're all pressing buttons!!!!

[bazookatooth]

We are not talking about any other DD jobs. we are talking about BST. Also, it does take some kind of skill to time when you run in to use your JAs or whatever.

No it doesn't. You use them when the timer is up, or you lose the fight. Everything is on a timer these days. You don't use your weaponskills, the monster doesn't die. Either you use the abilities when they're ready, you die, or you time out.

And yes we are talking about other jobs. If we weren't, there would be no basis to judge BST by. The people who play BST weren't asking for a nerf. The people who Don't play it were. AKA "other jobs". Nobody was like "I don't know how BST works in comparison to other jobs, I just think they should be nerfed because they hang out with sheep!". Even if they were, that would be a dumb way to determine job balance.

If we're all just pressing buttons (like every game every played in existence), Why are there good and bad players? We're all pressing buttons!!!!

FFXI is all about the pregame. The actual physical button press sequences are simple enough as to not matter for the most part. It's not like you have to enter the konami code to do a weapon skill or cast a spell. It's just a button. Gear swaps, macros, strategies etc. are what make or break a battle and those don't happen in the heat of the moment. Those get set up prior to the fight. There is a minimal level of intelligence required to play the game. And that bar is pretty low. People who lack the mental capacity to hit the weapon skill macro when the little bar flashes shouldn't be factored into game balance. And people who do aren't skilled. Most of the skill is in the set up. Going in with the right tools for the job.

And this whole argument is just a poor excuse for being bad at things. If you had the right gear macroed and the right players in your party, you'd know that you aren't missing out on anything by not bringing BST. The strategies for using other jobs more efficiently are all over the net. If you have time to complain, you have time to read them. There's no excuse for being on here complaining about BST other than sucking at the game and / or just being plain spiteful.

TLDR; even if this did separate the good from the bad. How does that benefit anyone? More crappy Bards and WHMs? More crappy sams? Or do you just want them all to quit?

[Bizniztyme]

No it doesn't. You use them when the timer is up, or you lose the fight. Everything is on a timer these days. You don't use your weaponskills, the monster doesn't die. Either you use the abilities when they're ready, you die, or you time out.

And yes we are talking about other jobs. If we weren't, there would be no basis to judge BST by. The people who play BST weren't asking for a nerf. The people who Don't play it were. AKA "other jobs". Nobody was like "I don't know how BST works in comparison to other jobs, I just think they should be nerfed because they hang out with sheep!". Even if they were, that would be a dumb way to determine job balance.



FFXI is all about the pregame. The actual physical button press sequences are simple enough as to not matter for the most part. It's not like you have to enter the konami code to do a weapon skill or cast a spell. It's just a button. Gear swaps, macros, strategies etc. are what make or break a battle and those don't happen in the heat of the moment. Those get set up prior to the fight. There is a minimal level of intelligence required to play the game. And that bar is pretty low. People who lack the mental capacity to hit the weapon skill macro when the little bar flashes shouldn't be factored into game balance. And people who do aren't skilled. Most of the skill is in the set up. Going in with the right tools for the job.

And this whole argument is just a poor excuse for being bad at things. If you had the right gear macroed and the right players in your party, you'd know that you aren't missing out on anything by not bringing BST. The strategies for using other jobs more efficiently are all over the net. If you have time to complain, you have time to read them. There's no excuse for being on here complaining about BST other than sucking at the game and / or just being plain spiteful.

TLDR; even if this did separate the good from the bad. How does that benefit anyone? More crappy Bards and WHMs? More crappy sams? Or do you just want them all to quit?

Man, looks like you just want to argue for no damn reason. All I'm saying is it does require some kind of skill to play the game. The change requires more and if you don't see that it's pointless. I'll leave you to argue with yourself and listen to yourself talk because that seems like that's what you like to do. Good bye.

[bazookatooth]

Man, looks like you just want to argue for no damn reason. All I'm saying is it does require some kind of skill to play the game. The change requires more and if you don't see that it's pointless. I'll leave you to argue with yourself and listen to yourself talk because that seems like that's what you like to do. Good bye.

Because walking back and forth shows skill... Okay, see you later. Remember not to walk and chew gum until you're skilled enough.

OMG. Look at all the crazy skilled people walking back and forth... https://youtu.be/UVpR5NEWQj8

[detlef]

A little bummed by the nerf. I like easy mode.

[Singforu]

And this is what I mean. As if it matters where I sip my tea. I do the exact same amount of moving around and button pressing on BST as I do on Monk or Samurai. Stand in front of the NM sipping my tea, pressing the WS macro over and over. You act like where other jobs are standing somehow changes the fact that they are doing nothing but hitting the WS macro over and over.

"Oh... You stand over there and press your button, but I stand over here and press my button... It's WAYYYY harder to press your button over here..."

One involves getting hit, one does not. I know this might be hard for you to understand, but there are people who do use damage taken sets and the difference between the two situations is one of them, you don't have to.

[Kensagaku]

One involves getting hit, one does not. I know this might be hard for you to understand, but there are people who do use damage taken sets and the difference between the two situations is one of them, you don't have to.

While you're not incorrect, therein lies the big problem for BST, being the only true pet job that is in close range after this update. Damage Taken sets are a thing, but by loading yourself up with Damage Taken so you don't die, your pet becomes vulnerable. BST has the second longest pet recall time (Dragoon has it worse, but our wyverns have plenty of defensive bonuses to make them a bit more survivable), and if your pet is dying faster, that's that much longer that you're completely non-viable as a damage dealer while they're down. BST's -only- role is as a damage dealer, and if we have to be in range to deal damage, we need to be able to receive it in a way that makes us viable. Basically, we need to be able to handle our primary problem of gearing for two people at once.

I'm not against having to be in range to fight. I like the "easy mode" as it were, but I don't have a problem moving into range. I have sets for when I need to engage too. But then if I'm gearing for myself, my pet suffers. If I don't swap my offhand axe for Charmer's Merlin, my Ready timer increases by 50% (from 10->15), and that lowers my overall DPS significantly. If I do swap my offhand axe, then I lose TP every time I use a Ready move, meaning that I can't weaponskill and that I'm basically there to do minimal white damage. If I gear for my own accuracy, my pet loses accuracy. If I gear for my pet's accuracy, I can't hit anything. The problem, again is "gearing for two." If they can address this issue, then I think the problem with having to be in range is severely mitigated.

[bazookatooth]

One involves getting hit, one does not. I know this might be hard for you to understand, but there are people who do use damage taken sets and the difference between the two situations is one of them, you don't have to.

Ready move's require the use of gear that has no DT- for the master. Some of them aren't even iLVL. Same goes for idle sets. Nothing you can do about that with currently available gear. Try again.