[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Morovich]

This thread may have gotten derailed I was simply asking about why the range to use certain commands was reduced which someone has already answered and couple others as well, but they aren't nerfing the power (DD) of the Beastmaster or the pets you simply have to be closer to your pet to execute certain commands how does that affect power?

After playing My Beastmaster last night and testing some things out I think I can understand why though The range is being reduced.

Also we don't know how much The range is being been reduced until The patch on the 15-16, So till then this is all just assumptions About doomsday for bst and such.

[Bizniztyme]

I'd hardly say that running in and out makes you good. It just makes things annoying. The only pet you can do that with and still put out anywhere near decent damage is the cricket. Any other pet and your'e going to have to stay in range as animation delay and a short ready timer won't allow you to run out.

It will definitely take more skill then just standing in one spot.

[Bizniztyme]

This is nonsense. With needing to use timers every 10 or less seconds, you can't possibly move in and out of range in any sensible way. BST is dead with this change. There will be not be a single event where it is useful.

Any job can be useful, it's just people in this game is all about 200% efficiency or no go. That is the problem.

[machini]

Any job can be useful, it's just people in this game is all about 200% efficiency or no go. That is the problem.

It's not even efficiency. It's people who are too stupid to do anything but specific cookie-cutter tactics on fights. Like a couple months back where I was doing Avatar D fights with a party doing PLD RNG RNG WHM BRD COR. It was taking 20-25 minutes to clear the things. I convinced them to let me switch to DNC/RUN, and we started clearing in 5-10 minutes. Then the RNGs went THF and we were not only clearing faster, but getting much better loot out of it, too.

What happens is that some group figures out how to clear content, and whatever it is they do that works, even if it doesn't work as well as other things discovered later, is what everyone does, 'cause that's "how it's done".

The other problem is that too many DDs are complete and total glass cannons and refuse to put on any defensive gear 'cause it might hurt their DPS -- as if being dead half a fight doesn't hurt your DPS.

When new content comes out, and then all anyone will do is use a specific job for it, that job doesn't need to be nerfed. If the job wasn't a problem before hand, but suddenly with the new content it is a problem, it's the content that is actually the problem, and the content that needs to be adjusted.

[bazookatooth]

It will definitely take more skill then just standing in one spot.

Maybe. I fail to see how any other DD job is different though. Samurais and monks and wars stand in one spot and hit weapon skill macros. Bsts do the exact same thing only from a different spot. It's not like any of the jobs move around very much during a fight other than maybe SMN, bard or thf. I'm not sure why BST doing that should be some indication of skill or lack there of.

[Singforu]

Maybe. I fail to see how any other DD job is different though. Samurais and monks and wars stand in one spot and hit weapon skill macros. Bsts do the exact same thing only from a different spot. It's not like any of the jobs move around very much during a fight other than maybe SMN, bard or thf. I'm not sure why BST doing that should be some indication of skill or lack there of.

He obviously was referring to having to keep yourself from dying for the brief moment where you have to run in to do the JA for your pet before running back out to the safety of being far away from the NM compared to just not even having to do such actions sitting in safety in the corner hitting your JAs from afar while sipping on tea all day like so many BSTs play nowadays.

[bazookatooth]

He obviously was referring to having to keep yourself from dying for the brief moment where you have to run in to do the JA for your pet before running back out to the safety of being far away from the NM compared to just not even having to do such actions sitting in safety in the corner hitting your JAs from afar while sipping on tea all day like so many BSTs play nowadays.

And this is what I mean. As if it matters where I sip my tea. I do the exact same amount of moving around and button pressing on BST as I do on Monk or Samurai. Stand in front of the NM sipping my tea, pressing the WS macro over and over. You act like where other jobs are standing somehow changes the fact that they are doing nothing but hitting the WS macro over and over.

"Oh... You stand over there and press your button, but I stand over here and press my button... It's WAYYYY harder to press your button over here..."

[kylani]

And this is what I mean. As if it matters where I sip my tea. I do the exact same amount of moving around and button pressing on BST as I do on Monk or Samurai. Stand in front of the NM sipping my tea, pressing the WS macro over and over. You act like where other jobs are standing somehow changes the fact that they are doing nothing but hitting the WS macro over and over.

"Oh... You stand over there and press your button, but I stand over here and press my button... It's WAYYYY harder to press your button over here..."

Well, to be fair, I knew some DDs who actually watched their status bars too. Haste, I need Haste! OMG, I've got Slow!

[bazookatooth]

BST was my first job at level 75, back in 2004, and what I remember about the BST job was <danger> and dying all the time, delevelling and making the 74 to 75 journey again almost daily. The reason our server only had around fifty BSTs at level 75 back in those days, is because nobody wanted to level it, and that was because of the danger and stress inherent in the charm/kite/pin/pet-switching nature of BST.

So the original oldschool BST was all about danger, and the master trying to stay alive in constantly dangerous situations. With the 2010~ change from charmed mobs to Jugpets, Jugpet boosts, Mulsums, the danger element of BST job vanished, suddenly they called these mighty pets that were like Siege Engines and just stood there. This was not what the core BST job was about, and maybe this current distance update is to try and restore at least some of the <danger> and <skill> elements to BST, a job that was originally based entirely on danger and skill.

My memories of BST 2005~ are mostly of me running for my life with my hitpoints in the red. I actually miss those days!

That's because you were killing things on bst that normally took a party to kill. Now what happened is SE got rid of charm and replaced it with jugs so that BST could participate in events. And players got pissed because bst was in events.

[Alhanelem]

It's not even efficiency. It's people who are too stupid to do anything but specific cookie-cutter tactics on fights. Like a couple months back where I was doing Avatar D fights with a party doing PLD RNG RNG WHM BRD COR. It was taking 20-25 minutes to clear the things. I convinced them to let me switch to DNC/RUN, and we started clearing in 5-10 minutes. Then the RNGs went THF and we were not only clearing faster, but getting much better loot out of it, too.

You start with "it's not even efficiency" but then you write a long description of how you got a party to vastly increase it's efficiency. Wat?

Personally I'm happy to use any combination of party members that can beat the fight. I care little for the amount of time taken per run (as long as we don't time out or almost time out). I feel like a lot of people have forgotten how to have fun.