[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Olor]

(this change might have been more tolerable if they also made changes to make the approach they're forcing on BSTs more viable)

This, for sure.

[Zeargi]

To be honest, these are probably some of the things that need to happen to do make this a thing:

BST needs to get the following JT:
Accuracy Bonus III: 30, 50, 75
Max HP Boost IV: 35, 55, 75, 95
Shield Defense Bonus: 85

The Job Trait: Beast Healer needs to change to include: Copies 1 status enhancing effect per rank in merits to Pet When Using Reward

Job Ability that needs to be Add:

Empathy's Bond: Decreases DMG Taken By Master and Increases Accuracy for Pet and Master the closer they are together
Level: 90
Recast: 3m
Effect Time: 45s~1m

And 2 or more Shields designed for BST EXCLUSIVELY need to be added. They also need to change BST Shield ranks from E to C.

>_> JA was just a last minute thought, and still a WIP, but the Gear and JTs are pretty solid... I think

[Secondplanet]

To be honest, these are probably some of the things that need to happen to do make this a thing:

BST needs to get the following JT:
Accuracy Bonus III: 30, 50, 75
Max HP Boost IV: 35, 55, 75, 95
Shield Defense Bonus: 85

The Job Trait: Beast Healer needs to change to include: Copies 1 status enhancing effect per rank in merits to Pet When Using Reward

Job Ability that needs to be Add:

Empathy's Bond: Decreases DMG Taken By Master and Increases Accuracy for Pet and Master the closer they are together
Level: 90
Recast: 3m
Effect Time: 45s~1m

And 2 or more Shields designed for BST EXCLUSIVELY need to be added. They also need to change BST Shield ranks from E to C.

>_> JA was just a last minute thought, and still a WIP, but the Gear and JTs are pretty solid... I think

Seriously??? Why don't you just skip to the point you ask to have every other jobs traits and skills.

[Jile]

SE decided we're magically supposed to be frontline jobs which is a dramatically different role. Had BST been designed as a front line job from the start then the suggestions Zeargi made may have been included as well. People want BSTs to accept we're frontline now, that change requires traits and gear be revised to transition our role.

SE community reps, what do the devs think about backing up this new concept of front line BST with allowing us to be useful at the same time our pets are with adjustments to our traits to support the forced transition from ranged jobs to frontline as well as adjustments to pet:gear so the stats are mutual so we're not useless when our pets are effective and vice versa.

I mean, if we're going to change BST then lets change it completely.

[Zeargi]

Seriously??? Why don't you just skip to the point you ask to have every other jobs traits and skills.

OK let me break it down for you, because you don't seem to get.

Of the '4' Pet Jobs

Summoner:
Pet Can be Buffed: Yes, Limited to the Blood Pacts on an Avatar, but they can get be augments outside of COR's Rolls with greater frequency without impacting over all DMG Output, E.I.: Abilities Divided into 2 Categories
Recover of Pet: Easy
Job Traits:
Level Name
10 Max MP Boost
15 Clear Mind
20 Resist Slow
25 Auto Refresh
30 Clear Mind II
30 Max MP Boost II
40 Resist Slow II
45 Clear Mind III
50 Max MP Boost III
60 Blood Boon
60 Clear Mind IV
60 Resist Slow III
70 Clear Mind V
70 Max MP Boost IV
75 Resist Slow IV
76 Max MP Boost V
85 Stout Servant
90 Auto Refresh II
95 Stout Servant II
96 Max MP Boost VI

Puppetmaster
Can Pet Be Buffed: Yes, The RDM and the WHM will cast spells on itself and other. Plus has Attachments, to further augment
Recovery of Pet: Easy
Job Traits:
Level Name
10 Resist Slow
15 Resist Amnesia *
20 Evasion Bonus
25 Martial Arts
40 Evasion Bonus II
50 Martial Arts II
50 Resist Slow II
60 Evasion Bonus III
70 Resist Slow III
75 Martial Arts III
75 (Merit) Fine-Tuning
75 (Merit) Optimization
78 Stout Servant
80 Evasion Bonus IV
80 Tactical Guard
85 Critical Defense Bonus
86 Martial Arts IV
88 Stout Servant II
90 Tactical Guard II
97 Martial Arts V
98 Stout Servant III

Dragoon
Can Pet Be Buffed: Yes, Through Empathy a great number of Player Buffs can be transferred, with limitations
Recovery of Pet:Medium to Difficult
Job Traits:

Level Name
10 Attack Bonus
20 Strafe
25 Dragon Killer
30 Accuracy Bonus
40 Strafe II
45 Conserve TP
50 Accuracy Bonus II
60 Strafe III
75 (Merit) Empathy
75 (Merit) Strafe Effect
78 Accuracy Bonus III
80 Strafe IV
85 Critical Defense Bonus
90 Dragon Killer II
91 Attack bonus II

Beastmaster
Can the Pet Be Buffed: Yes, Select pets can use a small amount of augmentative abilities, such as Regen, or Haste, but can also come at the cost of improper Species Typing, resulting in a lose of DMG Output.
Recovery of Pet: Medium to Difficult
Job Traits:
Level Name
10 Vermin Killer
15 Resist Slow
15 Resist Amnesia
20 Bird Killer
30 Amorph Killer
35 Resist Slow II
40 Lizard Killer
40 Wide Scan II
50 Aquan Killer
55 Resist Slow III
60 Plantoid Killer
60 Wide Scan III
70 Beast Killer
75 Resist Slow IV
75 (Merit) Beast Affinity
75 (Merit) Beast Healer
78 Stout Servant
80 Fencer
80 Wide Scan IV
87 Fencer II
88 Stout Servant II
94 Fencer III
98 Stout Servant III

Now, Let's compare: The two that are closest to BST are PUP and DRG:
PUP gets Martial Arts, Evasion Bonus, Tactical Guard, and Critical Defense Bonus
DRG get Accuracy Bonus, Attack Bonus, Conserve TP, Critical Defense Bonus
BST gets Fencer

Hmmm... Doesn't seem even does it?

Next up. Job abilities

PUP gets Deus Ex Automata, Repair, Maintenance, (Merit) Role Reversal, (Merit) Ventriloquy, Tactical Switch, Cooldown

DRG gets Ancient Circle, Jump, Spirit Link, High Jump, Super Jump, (Merit) Deep Breathing, (Merit) Angon, Spirit Jump, Soul Jump, Dragon Breaker

BST gets Charm, Gauge, Reward, Call Beast, Bestial Loyalty, Tame, (Merit) Feral Howl, (Merit) Killer Instinct

Guess what, this isn't balanced either.

So, those 3 Job Traits are pretty freakin' reasonable... Because you know who else gets Shield Defense Bonus... WHM... Yeah, the people that are a back line job get Shield Defense Bonus. You know who also get Fencer, but their main is a Two Hand weapon... WAR. But you know what else WAR gets: Attack Bonus II, Defense Bonus II, Max HP Bonus IV, Critical Attack Bonus II, Critical Defense Bonus, Shield Defense Bonus, and Double Attack. So You tell me legitimately why a Job that's classified as a "Front Line" Job has 0 useful Job Traits and Job Abilities?

[Secondplanet]

OK let me break it down for you, because you don't seem to get.

Of the '4' Pet Jobs

Summoner:
Pet Can be Buffed: Yes, Limited to the Blood Pacts on an Avatar, but they can get be augments outside of COR's Rolls with greater frequency without impacting over all DMG Output, E.I.: Abilities Divided into 2 Categories
Recover of Pet: Easy
Job Traits:
Level Name
10 Max MP Boost
15 Clear Mind
20 Resist Slow
25 Auto Refresh
30 Clear Mind II
30 Max MP Boost II
40 Resist Slow II
45 Clear Mind III
50 Max MP Boost III
60 Blood Boon
60 Clear Mind IV
60 Resist Slow III
70 Clear Mind V
70 Max MP Boost IV
75 Resist Slow IV
76 Max MP Boost V
85 Stout Servant
90 Auto Refresh II
95 Stout Servant II
96 Max MP Boost VI

Puppetmaster
Can Pet Be Buffed: Yes, The RDM and the WHM will cast spells on itself and other. Plus has Attachments, to further augment
Recovery of Pet: Easy
Job Traits:
Level Name
10 Resist Slow
15 Resist Amnesia *
20 Evasion Bonus
25 Martial Arts
40 Evasion Bonus II
50 Martial Arts II
50 Resist Slow II
60 Evasion Bonus III
70 Resist Slow III
75 Martial Arts III
75 (Merit) Fine-Tuning
75 (Merit) Optimization
78 Stout Servant
80 Evasion Bonus IV
80 Tactical Guard
85 Critical Defense Bonus
86 Martial Arts IV
88 Stout Servant II
90 Tactical Guard II
97 Martial Arts V
98 Stout Servant III

Dragoon
Can Pet Be Buffed: Yes, Through Empathy a great number of Player Buffs can be transferred, with limitations
Recovery of Pet:Medium to Difficult
Job Traits:

Level Name
10 Attack Bonus
20 Strafe
25 Dragon Killer
30 Accuracy Bonus
40 Strafe II
45 Conserve TP
50 Accuracy Bonus II
60 Strafe III
75 (Merit) Empathy
75 (Merit) Strafe Effect
78 Accuracy Bonus III
80 Strafe IV
85 Critical Defense Bonus
90 Dragon Killer II
91 Attack bonus II

Beastmaster
Can the Pet Be Buffed: Yes, Select pets can use a small amount of augmentative abilities, such as Regen, or Haste, but can also come at the cost of improper Species Typing, resulting in a lose of DMG Output.
Recovery of Pet: Medium to Difficult
Job Traits:
Level Name
10 Vermin Killer
15 Resist Slow
15 Resist Amnesia
20 Bird Killer
30 Amorph Killer
35 Resist Slow II
40 Lizard Killer
40 Wide Scan II
50 Aquan Killer
55 Resist Slow III
60 Plantoid Killer
60 Wide Scan III
70 Beast Killer
75 Resist Slow IV
75 (Merit) Beast Affinity
75 (Merit) Beast Healer
78 Stout Servant
80 Fencer
80 Wide Scan IV
87 Fencer II
88 Stout Servant II
94 Fencer III
98 Stout Servant III

Now, Let's compare: The two that are closest to BST are PUP and DRG:
PUP gets Martial Arts, Evasion Bonus, Tactical Guard, and Critical Defense Bonus
DRG get Accuracy Bonus, Attack Bonus, Conserve TP, Critical Defense Bonus
BST gets Fencer

Hmmm... Doesn't seem even does it?

Next up. Job abilities

PUP gets Deus Ex Automata, Repair, Maintenance, (Merit) Role Reversal, (Merit) Ventriloquy, Tactical Switch, Cooldown

DRG gets Ancient Circle, Jump, Spirit Link, High Jump, Super Jump, (Merit) Deep Breathing, (Merit) Angon, Spirit Jump, Soul Jump, Dragon Breaker

BST gets Charm, Gauge, Reward, Call Beast, Bestial Loyalty, Tame, (Merit) Feral Howl, (Merit) Killer Instinct

Guess what, this isn't balanced either.

So, those 3 Job Traits are pretty freakin' reasonable... Because you know who else gets Shield Defense Bonus... WHM... Yeah, the people that are a back line job get Shield Defense Bonus. You know who also get Fencer, but their main is a Two Hand weapon... WAR. But you know what else WAR gets: Attack Bonus II, Defense Bonus II, Max HP Bonus IV, Critical Attack Bonus II, Critical Defense Bonus, Shield Defense Bonus, and Double Attack. So You tell me legitimately why a Job that's classified as a "Front Line" Job has 0 useful Job Traits and Job Abilities?

any reason you left out job points and the gifts? Seems to be quite a few to power up your pets even further, also you seem to also forget how often you can heal your pet with the countless bonuses you can get on them plus regen. I can't talk for puppetmaster as i haven't really played it but as for summoner and dragoon that seems to put you on a big leap forward for keeping your pets alive, also can't really bring up the fact that summoners can resummon our avatars cause if they die most times we're dead as we have low defense and our avatars can't tank anything endgame as our options for -dt stuff is far more limited then yours.

[Zeargi]

any reason you left out job points and the gifts?

Because they don't matter. JP/CP don't matter if the fundamental aspect of a job can't stand up. JP shouldn't be a requirement to function, but the icing on top of a cake. As well, a job should be able to stand up on it's own without the aid of a support job. The support job should only further compliment the jobs ability. Such as BLM compliments RDM because it give access to spells it wouldn't normally have and offers the elemental seal ability. BST, they get Killer Traits which are useless in a party environment because a BST with hate means they die, so that also means no Intimidation. Then again, that doesn't matter, because they also don't help against Luminions, Luminians, Undead, Dragons, Demon, Arcana, Archaia, Empty, Beastmen, Vorageans, Elementals, Races, or Animated Objects, mostly because those don't have killer effects or they belong to another job. PLD - Holy Circle, DRK - Acrane Circle, SAM - Warding Circle, DRG - Ancient Circle. All those jobs gain their 'Circle' Naturally, but for BST... it's a merited ability.
Fencer - Increases Critical Hit Rate when wielding with the main hand only. Grants a TP Bonus to weapon skills.
This trait give +5% to crit rate up to 7% with Tier 3, but doesn't take effect if you're duel wielding, or using a 2-handed weapon. So that mean, BST have to use 1 Axe, and logically, because shields don't hinder this ability, you'd use that, but there aren't any good shields, but with an E ranking you won't be blocking a whole lot, but don't worry that WHM back there, they get a D ranking. But because BST is also heavy on equipment swaps, that means that switching to the Charmer's Merlin means your pet loses it's Ilvl and you lose your TP, and cutting into you overall DMG, because you aren't hitting that Ilvl 115+ mob with that axe, and your pet is now weaker

Seems to be quite a few to power up your pets even further, also you seem to also forget how often you can heal your pet with the countless bonuses you can get on them plus regen.

Spirit Link: Recast:1:30
Reward: Recast 1:30
Merits:
Spirit Link Recast
Reward Recast

Spirit Link requires a player's HP to but can transfer status buffs with Empathy. Also removes some status ailments from the Wyvern such as Poison, Sleep, Paralyze as well as has a chance to remove Doom.

Reward requires a Consumable item (Inventory Space) and heals based on the biscuit that's used, + all the Gear you swap in (More Inventory Space) and the Equipment pieces that can 'Augment' it so you can remove Poison, Slow, Paralyze, Silence, Blind, or Weight... Or you use another item (More Inventory Space) and Remove more status, but forego healing any HP. Plus you can't forget you make sure you swap in that other armor (Even more Inventory Space) So you can shorten the timer for Reward by another maybe 30 secs so you get to use it every 45 secs, if you have the items... Oh, your macros didn't screw up, and lets not forget that you're also trying not to die yourself. But hey! Your Reward command did give your pet some Enmity, plus side

I can't talk for puppetmaster as i haven't really played it but as for summoner and dragoon that seems to put you on a big leap forward for keeping your pets alive, also can't really bring up the fact that summoners can resummon our avatars cause if they die most times we're dead as we have low defense and our avatars can't tank anything endgame as our options for -dt stuff is far more limited then yours.

I can talk for PUP, because I've played the hell out of it and every other Pet Job.
PUP Gets Deus Ex Automata which is a 1 minute recast, Respawns the Automaton at 1/3 HP/MP and puts it into a High Burdened state, But You can use Role Swap, Deploy and Have it Use a Cure Spell if It's a mage, use Light Maneuver to allow it to Regen with Auto-Repair Kit 1-4, can use Cool Down to purge 50% of the burden, and if you manage to get it to 100% HP... You can Deactivate and reset the cool down time for Activate (Which is a 20m Recast) as often as you like. And BAM you have a fresh Auto with 100% HP and MP with all it's Attachments functional and it's ready to go in just a little over a minute.
You have just as many augmentable armors for SMN with the Helios, Keraunos, even the old Moogle Trial Staff that gives Pet: -12% PDT(Because your pet isn't effected by your main weapon like BST is), plus the Handler's Earrings (NQ and +1), With Garuda, she can heal herself which is on a 30 second time with all the augments you can get.

[Fynlar]

Unless either they make a new axe or shield with an effect similar to Charmer's Merlin (and I'm pretty sure they have said that they won't, but who knows anymore), you might as well forget about anything relating to Fencer or shields because they simply aren't going to get used.

Either that or they nerf pet TP moves to utter oblivion, in which case it would likely just be the I-beam that finally breaks the dhalmel's back in terms of BST actually getting any use at all.

[Secondplanet]

You have just as many augmentable armors for SMN with the Helios, Keraunos, even the old Moogle Trial Staff that gives Pet: -12% PDT(Because your pet isn't effected by your main weapon like BST is), plus the Handler's Earrings (NQ and +1), With Garuda, she can heal herself which is on a 30 second time with all the augments you can get.

Summoners don't get a choice on our ranged slot item anymore as we have to use and only use serapicaller to be able to do what we can. As for the augmentable gear except for swapping in for attacks are useless as we're slaves to MP. We have to have perpetual cost down and if we can refresh or we'll be a done in a couple of shots and have to rest or using our limited syphon ability. Even the moogle staff would hinder us as only 1 ability on a weapon is a waste of space. But most of all when it comes to Garuda its nice and all she can heal herself but then we have to choose to either do damage with the tp or spam it to keep her alive....... but wait isn't that what you're complaining about is having to choose to keep yourself or your pet alive? seems like a double standard you're giving summoners that we have to choose keeping a pet alive or doing damage at that point. As for beasts they have multiple options to use as their main hand to give their pets their ilvl and even have easy to obtain items to further increase their pets ilvl with out the need for a mythic like summoner has to face. As for inventory space many jobs have a great deal of space taken up to have all their swap pieces in.

Also many of the summoners bloodpact wards are still capped at lvl 75 stats with no word ever of bringing them to our current level.

[Zeargi]

Summoners don't get a choice on our ranged slot item anymore as we have to use and only use serapicaller to be able to do what we can. As for the augmentable gear except for swapping in for attacks are useless as we're slaves to MP. We have to have perpetual cost down and if we can refresh or we'll be a done in a couple of shots and have to rest or using our limited syphon ability.

Then you aren't managing your MP Well enough. Beckoner's Hands and Feet Teamed with /SCH storm spells would more than enough cover the Prep Cost for swapping in Helios armor pieces, that's also counting Auto Refresh and If you Took the Time to get the Evoker's Ring, which has been a staple for SMN since ever. You can also get an Icarus Wing and unlock Myrkr and Restore MP that way. Not to mention the Emp. Reforges still have a Blood Boon Bonus on them, that helps with your MP cost. Yet another Job Trait bonus that's useful to a pet job.

Even the moogle staff would hinder us as only 1 ability on a weapon is a waste of space.

So much like the Brave's Warbonnet or The Stout Bonnet that gives Reward Recast Minus (Oh and Charm Vs. Beast +6 Because Charm is used oh so much now in things)

But most of all when it comes to Garuda its nice and all she can heal herself but then we have to choose to either do damage with the tp or spam it to keep her alive....... but wait isn't that what you're complaining about is having to choose to keep yourself or your pet alive? seems like a double standard you're giving summoners that we have to choose keeping a pet alive or doing damage at that point.

Except with the proper distance, you're not going to die. I spent most of my time leveling SMN in Ifrit's Cauldron and you learned that you picked on Bombs, ran away and continued this until it used Self-Destruct. If you did The Trial-Size Avatar battles, that's how you won, by sending your lovely little Radioactive Squirrel to its doom a crap ton of times while you went to the entrance and back to the top each time you summoned, all the while using items to keep your MP in the Positive. That's before Elemental Siphon was a thing, and that the Elementals weren't next to free, and you had a crap ton of options for -Prep. And as a SMN, you're not getting near that stuff, because now you have a great distance range for your abilities and you're Backline job, so you can get away with dismissing and resummoning in a party, because you're not going to be in the AoE that cause weakness or that causes Terminal DMG and your avatar takes a few seconds to replay, where BST takes 5m and 20m to replace, each one costing money because those pets are also consumable.

As for beasts they have multiple options to use as their main hand to give their pets their ilvl and even have easy to obtain items to further increase their pets ilvl with out the need for a mythic like summoner has to face. As for inventory space many jobs have a great deal of space taken up to have all their swap pieces in.

There's a major difference, The Nirvana drops your level by 2, Unequipping an Ilvl Axe drops BST's Pet lvl by 20, and you can get away without the Nirvana. Not to mention that no matter the case, BST pets can't go beyond 119, unlike your Avatar which can go to 121/122 for Carbuncle and Cait Sith.

Also many of the summoners bloodpact wards are still capped at lvl 75 stats with no word ever of bringing them to our current level.

That's been the only correct thing you've said thus far, but SMN is still in better shape than BST.