[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Onision]

If you wind people up very easily...

Let me let you in on a secret. As you can likely glean from my post count and some threads I've participated in, I am rather infamous on these forums for certain things (which are really not entirely accurate, but that's a story for another day). Despite the ire I've sometimes drawn for my comments, I have NEVER been harassed ingame because of a comment I made on the forums.

You have nothing to fear unless you persistently and deliberately harass others yourself. There is basically no way that showing your actual character would subject you to abuse ingame. Even if it did, you could call a GM and get them suspended or banned for harassment.

That's not to say nobody's ever talked to me in game related to something I said on the forums. But I've never been harassed or bothered or attacked ingame for it. And For the most part, I actually like this, because it often results in discussion with forum lurkers who read but don't post on the forums. Often people are much more talkative ingame. Besides that, I have nothing to hide. Feel free to message my character ingame. If you decide to harass me, I'll simply use the ingame tools at my disposal to make it stop- blacklist and GM call.

Because of this, I have to agree that it is pretty lame to hide behind an internet alias that's already hiding behind another internet alias.

You have never been harassed in-game therefore it's impossible for it to happen to anyone else. Falling back on the GM is useless and illogical when confrontation can be avoided in the first place. They have a personal preference to remain anonymous, leave it at that.

[bazookatooth]

If you wind people up very easily...

Let me let you in on a secret. As you can likely glean from my post count and some threads I've participated in, I am rather infamous on these forums for certain things (which are really not entirely accurate, but that's a story for another day). Despite the ire I've sometimes drawn for my comments, I have NEVER been harassed ingame because of a comment I made on the forums.

You have nothing to fear unless you persistently and deliberately harass others yourself. There is basically no way that showing your actual character would subject you to abuse ingame. Even if it did, you could call a GM and get them suspended or banned for harassment.

That's not to say nobody's ever talked to me in game related to something I said on the forums. But I've never been harassed or bothered or attacked ingame for it. And For the most part, I actually like this, because it often results in discussion with forum lurkers who read but don't post on the forums. Often people are much more talkative ingame. Besides that, I have nothing to hide. Feel free to message my character ingame. If you decide to harass me, I'll simply use the ingame tools at my disposal to make it stop- blacklist and GM call.

Because of this, I have to agree that it is pretty lame to hide behind an internet alias that's already hiding behind another internet alias.

I don;t care about in game. I've had people from here follow me around on BG and FFXIAH and even G+. And there's really no benefit to showing my character. I've never had anyone bring it up in any context other than "Oh, I can't prove you wrong, so I will attack you for hiding your info!". People with friendly attitudes and good intentions never care about it.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

If you wind people up very easily...

Let me let you in on a secret. As you can likely glean from my post count and some threads I've participated in, I am rather infamous on these forums for certain things (which are really not entirely accurate, but that's a story for another day). Despite the ire I've sometimes drawn for my comments, I have NEVER been harassed ingame because of a comment I made on the forums.

You have nothing to fear unless you persistently and deliberately harass others yourself. There is basically no way that showing your actual character would subject you to abuse ingame. Even if it did, you could call a GM and get them suspended or banned for harassment.

That's not to say nobody's ever talked to me in game related to something I said on the forums. But I've never been harassed or bothered or attacked ingame for it. And For the most part, I actually like this, because it often results in discussion with forum lurkers who read but don't post on the forums. Often people are much more talkative ingame. Besides that, I have nothing to hide. Feel free to message my character ingame. If you decide to harass me, I'll simply use the ingame tools at my disposal to make it stop- blacklist and GM call.

Because of this, I have to agree that it is pretty lame to hide behind an internet alias that's already hiding behind another internet alias.

That's good to hear, however, I have been harassed in game (albeit not this one) due to comments I've made on forums.

And for the people like Bazookatooth who get harassed outside because of a game, what then do you do?

It's nothing to do with hiding anything it's more a case of removing the bother of being hassled when there is no real reason for anyone to know your character account in the first place and should have just been used to confirm your right to access the forum. As bazookatooth said, you'll notice how the only people commenting on it are the ones currently having a heated debate with you.

[Alhanelem]

There is a benefit where it can lead to civil discussion. "hey, I saw your post on the forums! I don't post there but I thought I should let you know I really liked your comment about adding michael jackson to the game."

I can't say there's zero risk of hassle, but I can tell you nearly everyone tends to behave better ingame than they would on the forums. If they do something stupid from the forums, they just get banned from the forums. People are more worried about getting banned from the game, so the behavior standard is higher.

You have never been harassed in-game therefore it's impossible for it to happen to anyone else. Falling back on the GM is useless and illogical when confrontation can be avoided in the first place. They have a personal preference to remain anonymous, leave it at that.

No, I'm not saying I've never been harassed ingame, I'm saying i've never been harassed ingame because of posting on the forums. I don't understand why people are worried about being harassed in an online game, because it is much, much easier to deal with in the game than it is in person. you just /blacklist Jerkface, and you never have to deal with them again. If they do something stupid like follow you around or something because they have no life, you call a GM and get them suspended.

One of the biggest problems for me with people posting behind a mule is I have no way to know (for instance) if they actually have / play the job they're making comments on. e.g. people who have no experience playing a job declaring it's overpowered for example. If you can see that's not their main class then you know you don't have to take them as seriously. Additionally, if you hide behind a mule, people might just assume you're talking out your behind when you're really not.

If people didn't have to subscribe to the game to make an account and post on these forums, I could sort of understand it, because then every internet troll could come in here and this place would be much more toxic. But the forums are only a subset of the playerbase.

Finally, With updates for the game winding down, I see a lot more camaraderie with the playerbase. People are helping each other out more and being nicer because they don't want to make someone else quit and shrink the population. If you come clean with your main, you really shouldn't have anything to worry about. I think you're getting concerned about something that pretty much isn't going to happen, but that's your choice.

And there's really no benefit to showing my character. I've never had anyone bring it up in any context other than "Oh, I can't prove you wrong, so I will attack you for hiding your info!"

The thing is, if you weren't hiding your info, they couldn't have that discussion >.> Being honest with who you are and having nothing to hide gives your argument more weight vs. the more anonymous person saying the same thing. There is a much greater risk in being a jerkwad when people know who you are, so it is less likely to happen. And as I've said above, I've had positive conversations with others from posting on the forums (such as someone who doesn't post asking follow up questions about a job I play because they were seeking advice, for instance.)

Is it 100% risk free? No, nothing ever is. But there are benefits and the risk is miniscule.

[Dale]

There is a benefit where it can lead to civil discussion. "hey, I saw your post on the forums! I don't post there but I thought I should let you know I really liked your comment about adding michael jackson to the game."

I can't say there's zero risk of hassle, but I can tell you nearly everyone tends to behave better ingame than they would on the forums. If they do something stupid from the forums, they just get banned from the forums. People are more worried about getting banned from the game, so the behavior standard is higher.

No, I'm not saying I've never been harassed ingame, I'm saying i've never been harassed ingame because of posting on the forums. I don't understand why people are worried about being harassed in an online game, because it is much, much easier to deal with in the game than it is in person. you just /blacklist Jerkface, and you never have to deal with them again. If they do something stupid like follow you around or something because they have no life, you call a GM and get them suspended.

One of the biggest problems for me with people posting behind a mule is I have no way to know (for instance) if they actually have / play the job they're making comments on. e.g. people who have no experience playing a job declaring it's overpowered for example. If you can see that's not their main class then you know you don't have to take them as seriously. Additionally, if you hide behind a mule, people might just assume you're talking out your behind when you're really not.

If people didn't have to subscribe to the game to make an account and post on these forums, I could sort of understand it, because then every internet troll could come in here and this place would be much more toxic. But the forums are only a subset of the playerbase.

Finally, With updates for the game winding down, I see a lot more camaraderie with the playerbase. People are helping each other out more and being nicer because they don't want to make someone else quit and shrink the population. If you come clean with your main, you really shouldn't have anything to worry about. I think you're getting concerned about something that pretty much isn't going to happen, but that's your choice.

The thing is, if you weren't hiding your info, they couldn't have that discussion >.> Being honest with who you are and having nothing to hide gives your argument more weight vs. the more anonymous person saying the same thing. There is a much greater risk in being a jerkwad when people know who you are, so it is less likely to happen. And as I've said above, I've had positive conversations with others from posting on the forums (such as someone who doesn't post asking follow up questions about a job I play because they were seeking advice, for instance.)

Is it 100% risk free? No, nothing ever is. But there are benefits and the risk is miniscule.

That is why people who like to harass others on forums typically create level 1 troll characters to do it with. So they can't be held to account by other players.

So I agree with you about this.

We should all have to post on our main characters. It would definitely prompt a more civil discussion... or at the very least one with a lot less b.S.

[Olor]

The Beast Master may have been exceptionally played but he was not exceptionally well geared Daniel. All he had was skirmish gear

Ok you just lost all credibility. Skirmish gear is quite often BIS for pet focussed beasts. So you basically just have no idea that people spend hundreds of millions to be what you call "not exceptionally geared"

[Dale]

Ok you just lost all credibility. Skirmish gear is quite often BIS for pet focussed beasts. So you basically just have no idea that people spend hundreds of millions to be what you call "not exceptionally geared"

What does BIS mean?

And no: I haven't lost all credibility. I know the Beast Master and he did not spend hundreds of millions of Gil on it. That is a gross exaggeration. I have made several skirmish sets myself - they did not cost me hundreds of millions of gil to make either.

Skirmish gear is pretty accessible and does not equal exceptionally well-geared. At least not in my mind.

Stones can be farmed - even soloed by good Beast Masters. So this idea that building a good skirmish set is so terribly difficult to do and constitutes some rare and exceptional combination of gear is just poppycock. Everyone and their mother has good skirmish sets these days.

[Olor]

BIS = Best in Slot

And just cause you're either satisfied with mediocre augments or got lucky and got the augments you wanted or have cheap augments (most melee stones are WAY cheaper than pet or magic stones) doesn't mean others are in the same situation.

I spent more than 20 million in stones trying to get a TP bonus axe and didn't get a single TP bonus augment. Not one.

Maybe you're Mr. Lucky who gets the augment he wants after 1 stone or w/e but for other people you can't assume from looking at their skirmish gear how much they have spent on it.

Nevermind that not all augments are created equal. It's way easier and cheaper to get player MAB than pet: MAB on Taeon for example. Way easier and cheaper to get player TRIPLE ATTACK than it is to get pet double attack. Way easier and cheaper to get anything other than pet damage taken or haste etc etc.

[Dale]

BIS = Best in Slot

And just cause you're either satisfied with mediocre augments or got lucky and got the augments you wanted or have cheap augments (most melee stones are WAY cheaper than pet or magic stones) doesn't mean others are in the same situation.

I spent more than 20 million in stones trying to get a TP bonus axe and didn't get a single TP bonus augment. Not one.

Maybe you're Mr. Lucky who gets the augment he wants after 1 stone or w/e but for other people you can't assume from looking at their skirmish gear how much they have spent on it.

Nevermind that not all augments are created equal. It's way easier and cheaper to get player MAB than pet: MAB on Taeon for example. Way easier and cheaper to get player TRIPLE ATTACK than it is to get pet double attack. Way easier and cheaper to get anything other than pet damage taken or haste etc etc.

20 million is still no where near the 100s of millions it would take to buy an upgraded Aegis.

So again: even in your example of bad luck it still doesn't take away from my credibility in in the context I was using.

Can people spend another 20,30 million trying to get 1% more -DT for their pets? Sure. But again: that still doesn't mean it's exceptionally difficult to create a good skirmish set. Because it's not.

This isn't to mention it's not that hard to farm stones either. Skirmish gear is pretty accessible - even to the average player. I stand by that.

[detlef]

As I recall there were issues where "mule" accounts tended to be a trollier due to the additional anonymity. Mods fixed it by just banning everybody.

Aside from that, if Alhanelem of all people can say that he's never been harassed in-game because of his forum persona, I think that's some pretty good evidence against the anonymity argument.