[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Fynlar]

because they create a lot of enmity with their crazy damage

I dunno where you've been, but this hasn't been the case since March.

Haven't you read stories of BST/DNCs ripping hate after the pet has done thousands of damage with just a single Curing Waltz III? Sure, they can Snarl it, but that is still ridiculous that they need to in that context in the first place.

[bazookatooth]

I dunno where you've been, but this hasn't been the case since March.

Haven't you read stories of BST/DNCs ripping hate after the pet has done thousands of damage with just a single Curing Waltz III? Sure, they can Snarl it, but that is still ridiculous that they need to in that context in the first place.

ANd snarl only works if the master builds emnity which the master isn't going to be building any significant emnity on anything that actually needs a tank.

[machini]

ANd snarl only works if the master builds emnity which the master isn't going to be building any significant emnity on anything that actually needs a tank.

Wait, are you saying that BST is complicated, more complicated than people who have never played it understand, and that knee-jerk reactions are bad things? That this nerf was, perhaps, not a good idea, and that there were better alternatives that would have yielded better results while not completely pissing off anyone who cares about BST?

[Olor]

The suggested changes relayed by Camate sound just as terrible as what we have now. I don't see any reason to keep my sub up.

[bazookatooth]

Wait, are you saying that BST is complicated, more complicated than people who have never played it understand, and that knee-jerk reactions are bad things? That this nerf was, perhaps, not a good idea, and that there were better alternatives that would have yielded better results while not completely pissing off anyone who cares about BST?

Yeah, more or less.

[Alhanelem]

When you are discussing the ability of a pet to tank - then yes - enmity is definitely a relevant factor and not an irrelevant tangent.

It's typically irrelevant in the context of how we're tanking. In SMN's case,typically you're only tanking against other SMNs, people who know what's going on and control their output accordingly, etc. PUP can generate plenty enough enmity with the release of the 2nd strobe attachment (and keeps itself alive with repairkit regen, repair oils, and also cannibal blade healing it for like 1k and never missing). The only difference with BST is it doesn't have to do anything to tank. The reason it's an irrelevant tangent is because it's irrelevant to the fact that tanking on the other pet jobs (except DRG) is possible.

In shorter terms, the simple fact is PUP can tank when geared properly. SMN only ever has to tank against itself and/or probably other SMNs, and is perfectly able to do so.

[dasva]

Yeah we've been using pup tanks for months now. Heck a couple of months ago I wanted to see how well it kept hate so I went run... none of the bst pets pulled hate, the avatars only briefly after their huge spikes but the pup frequently took hate off me if I wasn't paying attention. Pre nerf we had done some with just bsts and smn for pets but after the enmity nerft awhile back they had a really hard time keeping hate off the support.

Most the time it is used as a tank it's just with other pets anyways so the momentary switch to those other pets is trivial enough not to matter. Heck my sharpshot frame frequently pulls hate from the tank frames with ws spamming... takes a hit loses it and regens right back like a boss. The avatars they live they die it doesn't really matter much they get resummoned and bp again but if the smns actually geared for pet dt they can keep them alive for awhile. And if you want to get really fancy you get pld/run lvl enmity gain via fancy Ventriloquy tricks.

I'm halfway certain there might be a way to get wyverns to tank...they certainly got the best dt out there but that's some serious next lvl square peg stuff

[Fynlar]

I'm halfway certain there might be a way to get wyverns to tank...

The one thing they do that might have served as any decent hate generation (Healing Breath) doesn't actually generate any hate because apparently NPC heals just don't generate hate for whatever reason. They cannot be made to use any other hate generation tool, I don't think THFs can Trick Attack onto them, and Super Jump only gets hate off the DRG, not transferred to the wyvern, AFAIK.

Other than DRGs Super Jumping their way to safety while the wyvern takes the fall for them, I'd be shocked if there was any real way to get them to "tank" anything

[Dale]

It's typically irrelevant in the context of how we're tanking..

No it isn't irrelevant.

Enmity is a factor when it comes to considering how effective a tank is. That's just a fact.

Detailing different strategies of tanking doesn't change that.

[Dale]

It's irrelevant because nobody uses BST pets to tank except... Beastmasters. .

I've been in many parties that have utilized the Beast Master pets as tanks. So that just isn't the case.