[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Dale]

Are we sure that is still the case for healing breath though?

He is correct. Healing Breath does not generate any hate.

That's why Dragoons can make exceptional bomb healers in situations where their wyvern isn't threatened.

[Kensagaku]

...While I think that both sides are being a little unnecessarily aggressive and this is devolving from a debate to an argument quite quickly, I would like to clarify one point that Bazooka made. Yorium does in fact have a DT augment, so... >.>; That being said, Dale, if you didn't spend a lot getting a full set of DT from Duskslits either you've gotten extremely lucky or you have no value of money. As someone who has made sets out of Acro, Taeon, Helios, and a handful of weapons for various jobs, I know I've thrown away millions in dusk stones for bad luck augments. And this "bad luck" is fairly common for people.

That being said. A good BST pet -can- tank, but it requires a setup in which you have low-hate DDs and puts the pet at considerable risk. To do damage, you need to swap out of DT gear (though to be fair, you could make acc or attack / DA / DT gear but that only proves the point of well-geared players who have put a lot of money into the system), and your pet needs ways to maintain enmity. Damage alone doesn't provide much and the other DDs will build up their enmity quickly since BST pets have no unique ways of building enmity. BST has some methods to maintain this thanks to a variety of pet enmity gear, but in the end, they will bleed it almost as fast as any DD. I honestly think a PUP automaton can be a far better tank with the stuff they have built in combined with gear, along with enmity generation tools, and they still need special methods to build up their enmity faster.

Now, how about we tone down the aggressive nature on both sides and bring this back into a proper discussion before the mods lock this thread?

[bazookatooth]

...While I think that both sides are being a little unnecessarily aggressive and this is devolving from a debate to an argument quite quickly, I would like to clarify one point that Bazooka made. Yorium does in fact have a DT augment, so... >.>; That being said, Dale, if you didn't spend a lot getting a full set of DT from Duskslits either you've gotten extremely lucky or you have no value of money. As someone who has made sets out of Acro, Taeon, Helios, and a handful of weapons for various jobs, I know I've thrown away millions in dusk stones for bad luck augments. And this "bad luck" is fairly common for people.

That being said. A good BST pet -can- tank, but it requires a setup in which you have low-hate DDs and puts the pet at considerable risk. To do damage, you need to swap out of DT gear (though to be fair, you could make acc or attack / DA / DT gear but that only proves the point of well-geared players who have put a lot of money into the system), and your pet needs ways to maintain enmity. Damage alone doesn't provide much and the other DDs will build up their enmity quickly since BST pets have no unique ways of building enmity. BST has some methods to maintain this thanks to a variety of pet enmity gear, but in the end, they will bleed it almost as fast as any DD. I honestly think a PUP automaton can be a far better tank with the stuff they have built in combined with gear, along with enmity generation tools, and they still need special methods to build up their enmity faster.

Now, how about we tone down the aggressive nature on both sides and bring this back into a proper discussion before the mods lock this thread?

Hmm... Your right. I guess I've just never seen anyone wearing it. Still 6-8mil a stack for +2 stones though.

[Alhanelem]

There is a benefit where it can lead to civil discussion. "hey, I saw your post on the forums! I don't post there but I thought I should let you know I really liked your comment about adding michael jackson to the game."

I can't say there's zero risk of hassle, but I can tell you nearly everyone tends to behave better ingame than they would on the forums. If they do something stupid from the forums, they just get banned from the forums. People are more worried about getting banned from the game, so the behavior standard is higher.

You have never been harassed in-game therefore it's impossible for it to happen to anyone else. Falling back on the GM is useless and illogical when confrontation can be avoided in the first place. They have a personal preference to remain anonymous, leave it at that.

No, I'm not saying I've never been harassed ingame, I'm saying i've never been harassed ingame because of posting on the forums. I don't understand why people are worried about being harassed in an online game, because it is much, much easier to deal with in the game than it is in person. you just /blacklist Jerkface, and you never have to deal with them again. If they do something stupid like follow you around or something because they have no life, you call a GM and get them suspended.

One of the biggest problems for me with people posting behind a mule is I have no way to know (for instance) if they actually have / play the job they're making comments on. e.g. people who have no experience playing a job declaring it's overpowered for example. If you can see that's not their main class then you know you don't have to take them as seriously. Additionally, if you hide behind a mule, people might just assume you're talking out your behind when you're really not.

If people didn't have to subscribe to the game to make an account and post on these forums, I could sort of understand it, because then every internet troll could come in here and this place would be much more toxic. But the forums are only a subset of the playerbase.

Finally, With updates for the game winding down, I see a lot more camaraderie with the playerbase. People are helping each other out more and being nicer because they don't want to make someone else quit and shrink the population. If you come clean with your main, you really shouldn't have anything to worry about. I think you're getting concerned about something that pretty much isn't going to happen, but that's your choice.

And there's really no benefit to showing my character. I've never had anyone bring it up in any context other than "Oh, I can't prove you wrong, so I will attack you for hiding your info!"

The thing is, if you weren't hiding your info, they couldn't have that discussion >.> Being honest with who you are and having nothing to hide gives your argument more weight vs. the more anonymous person saying the same thing. There is a much greater risk in being a jerkwad when people know who you are, so it is less likely to happen. And as I've said above, I've had positive conversations with others from posting on the forums (such as someone who doesn't post asking follow up questions about a job I play because they were seeking advice, for instance.)

Is it 100% risk free? No, nothing ever is. But there are benefits and the risk is miniscule.

[Dale]

There is a benefit where it can lead to civil discussion. "hey, I saw your post on the forums! I don't post there but I thought I should let you know I really liked your comment about adding michael jackson to the game."

I can't say there's zero risk of hassle, but I can tell you nearly everyone tends to behave better ingame than they would on the forums. If they do something stupid from the forums, they just get banned from the forums. People are more worried about getting banned from the game, so the behavior standard is higher.

No, I'm not saying I've never been harassed ingame, I'm saying i've never been harassed ingame because of posting on the forums. I don't understand why people are worried about being harassed in an online game, because it is much, much easier to deal with in the game than it is in person. you just /blacklist Jerkface, and you never have to deal with them again. If they do something stupid like follow you around or something because they have no life, you call a GM and get them suspended.

One of the biggest problems for me with people posting behind a mule is I have no way to know (for instance) if they actually have / play the job they're making comments on. e.g. people who have no experience playing a job declaring it's overpowered for example. If you can see that's not their main class then you know you don't have to take them as seriously. Additionally, if you hide behind a mule, people might just assume you're talking out your behind when you're really not.

If people didn't have to subscribe to the game to make an account and post on these forums, I could sort of understand it, because then every internet troll could come in here and this place would be much more toxic. But the forums are only a subset of the playerbase.

Finally, With updates for the game winding down, I see a lot more camaraderie with the playerbase. People are helping each other out more and being nicer because they don't want to make someone else quit and shrink the population. If you come clean with your main, you really shouldn't have anything to worry about. I think you're getting concerned about something that pretty much isn't going to happen, but that's your choice.

The thing is, if you weren't hiding your info, they couldn't have that discussion >.> Being honest with who you are and having nothing to hide gives your argument more weight vs. the more anonymous person saying the same thing. There is a much greater risk in being a jerkwad when people know who you are, so it is less likely to happen. And as I've said above, I've had positive conversations with others from posting on the forums (such as someone who doesn't post asking follow up questions about a job I play because they were seeking advice, for instance.)

Is it 100% risk free? No, nothing ever is. But there are benefits and the risk is miniscule.

That is why people who like to harass others on forums typically create level 1 troll characters to do it with. So they can't be held to account by other players.

So I agree with you about this.

We should all have to post on our main characters. It would definitely prompt a more civil discussion... or at the very least one with a lot less b.S.

[Elexia]

No one said it was hard to get skirmish base gear - but yeah it is harder to get good pet augments than melee augments.

At any rate, I've spent waaaaaaaaaaaay less gil on my BLU and it's way better than my BST so...

Doubtful. I've been helping a recently returning pre Job Point era Blue Mage get caught up and the JP BSTs we run with are still far superior. Don't make it sound like it's so black & white, absolutely nothing was touched on BST that severely weakened it, as in there's no reports or data posted by anyone, not even SE that shows they nerfed all of the pets, suddenly nerfed every BST WS and nerfed every BST ability.

That is why people who like to harass others on forums typically create level 1 troll characters to do it with. So they can't be held to account by other players.

So I agree with you about this.

We should all have to post on our main characters. It would definitely prompt a more civil discussion... or at the very least one with a lot less b.S.

It's not even for privacy sake or anything, as said they don't want to be confronted in game because they know they start BS with people on the forums and too scared to own up to it.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

It's not even for privacy sake or anything, as said they don't want to be confronted in game because they know they start BS with people on the forums and too scared to own up to it.

That's not what was said at all, being harassed is not "owning up" to anything, I have no problems with debating my opinions on something, but I have no interest in being called all the names under the sun while I play my game because of my opinion, please understand the difference.

[bazookatooth]

Doubtful. I've been helping a recently returning pre Job Point era Blue Mage get caught up and the JP BSTs we run with are still far superior. Don't make it sound like it's so black & white, absolutely nothing was touched on BST that severely weakened it, as in there's no reports or data posted by anyone, not even SE that shows they nerfed all of the pets, suddenly nerfed every BST WS and nerfed every BST ability.

BLU was already a better damage dealer. They didn't have to touch anything.

It's not even for privacy sake or anything, as said they don't want to be confronted in game because they know they start BS with people on the forums and too scared to own up to it.

What exactly do I have to be "Scared" of?

[Olor]

BIS = Best in Slot

And just cause you're either satisfied with mediocre augments or got lucky and got the augments you wanted or have cheap augments (most melee stones are WAY cheaper than pet or magic stones) doesn't mean others are in the same situation.

I spent more than 20 million in stones trying to get a TP bonus axe and didn't get a single TP bonus augment. Not one.

Maybe you're Mr. Lucky who gets the augment he wants after 1 stone or w/e but for other people you can't assume from looking at their skirmish gear how much they have spent on it.

Nevermind that not all augments are created equal. It's way easier and cheaper to get player MAB than pet: MAB on Taeon for example. Way easier and cheaper to get player TRIPLE ATTACK than it is to get pet double attack. Way easier and cheaper to get anything other than pet damage taken or haste etc etc.

[Dale]

BIS = Best in Slot

And just cause you're either satisfied with mediocre augments or got lucky and got the augments you wanted or have cheap augments (most melee stones are WAY cheaper than pet or magic stones) doesn't mean others are in the same situation.

I spent more than 20 million in stones trying to get a TP bonus axe and didn't get a single TP bonus augment. Not one.

Maybe you're Mr. Lucky who gets the augment he wants after 1 stone or w/e but for other people you can't assume from looking at their skirmish gear how much they have spent on it.

Nevermind that not all augments are created equal. It's way easier and cheaper to get player MAB than pet: MAB on Taeon for example. Way easier and cheaper to get player TRIPLE ATTACK than it is to get pet double attack. Way easier and cheaper to get anything other than pet damage taken or haste etc etc.

20 million is still no where near the 100s of millions it would take to buy an upgraded Aegis.

So again: even in your example of bad luck it still doesn't take away from my credibility in in the context I was using.

Can people spend another 20,30 million trying to get 1% more -DT for their pets? Sure. But again: that still doesn't mean it's exceptionally difficult to create a good skirmish set. Because it's not.

This isn't to mention it's not that hard to farm stones either. Skirmish gear is pretty accessible - even to the average player. I stand by that.