[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Fynlar]

Just take your pick - any of the normal, difficult, very difficult higher-tier battlefields which the Beast Master could easily solo. I watched a Beast Master cut through skirmish notorious monsters like water - the same one that was dropping meteors and one-shotting the rest of the party. I watch them eat normal and difficult avatars for breakfast - where as I have to equip all - mdt and sub /rune to barely survive their hits on very easy.

Yeah, no, that isn't happening as easily as you think it is. The ones that you see doing this are likely geared/gifted to the teeth.

You try throwing most average BSTs into that AA MR VD fight, and even though the fight is still very simplistic in design (as I said, the one actual threat to a close-range BST being easily blocked with Utsusemi), they are going to get creamed.

I don't wanna call it a solo if people resort using trust when double trust event is up.

Trusts won't do much for a BST other than speed up a kill, potentially just a little bit, because trusts will usually get massacred by anything that matters, and if the pet is indisposed and the BST takes any hit by anything that matters they will quite possibly be 1-shot by anything that matters too. Trusts also won't (directly) heal the pet. Tank trusts also are not effective for long; the pet will rip hate off them soon enough assuming you are the caliber of BST required for pulling feats like this off.

[Dale]

Yeah, no, that isn't happening as easily as you think it is. The ones that you see doing this are likely geared/gifted to the teeth.

You try throwing most average BSTs into that AA MR VD fight, and even though the fight is still very simplistic in design (as I said, the one actual threat to a close-range BST being easily blocked with Utsusemi), they are going to get creamed.
.

That might be the case when it comes to the extreme examples of a very difficult AA fight.

But it didn't take an exceptionally geared Beast Master to take out normal or even difficult tier avatar fights before these nerfs. I saw them do it routinely.

[Alhanelem]

I never said pet tanking is a new concept. I never said other pet jobs have never kited or tanked NMs through-out FF XI's history.

No, pet tanking is not a new concept (The irony here is right after saying pet tanking is a new concept, you immediately admit other jobs have kited and tanked NMs before, therefore making pets tanking not a new concept). If you want to get really specific and say "Pet tanking against hardcore DPS in endgame content" is a new concept, that's a little closer but even that has been done to a limited degree prior to audolin, item levels, etc.

Also, as has been mentioned, pet tanking is not exclusive to beastmaster. With the last batch of attachments valoredge can actually tank- Not a new concept for PUP (There's been an attachment for enmity generation since PUP first existed), but the auto lacked durability prior.

Pet burns are also still technically pets tanking, and they've been around as long as pet jobs have existed (read: since FFXI existed).

[Dale]

No, pet tanking is not a new concept (The irony here is right after saying pet tanking is a new concept, you immediately admit other jobs have kited and tanked NMs before, therefore making pets tanking not a new concept). If you want to get really specific and say "Pet tanking against hardcore DPS in endgame content" is a new concept, that's a little closer but even that has been done to a limited degree prior to audolin, item levels, etc.

Also, as has been mentioned, pet tanking is not exclusive to beastmaster. With the last batch of attachments valoredge can actually tank- Not a new concept for PUP (There's been an attachment for enmity generation since PUP first existed), but the auto lacked durability prior.

Pet burns are also still technically pets tanking, and they've been around as long as pet jobs have existed (read: since FFXI existed).

What is new is the crazy amount of damage and defense Beast Master pets got: essentially turning them into super tanks.

I was never trying to suggest pet tanking it a novel idea or exclusive to Beast Master. The strength and power of the Beast Master pets is what makes them uniquely powerful as tanks.

[Fynlar]

because they create a lot of enmity with their crazy damage

I dunno where you've been, but this hasn't been the case since March.

Haven't you read stories of BST/DNCs ripping hate after the pet has done thousands of damage with just a single Curing Waltz III? Sure, they can Snarl it, but that is still ridiculous that they need to in that context in the first place.

[bazookatooth]

I dunno where you've been, but this hasn't been the case since March.

Haven't you read stories of BST/DNCs ripping hate after the pet has done thousands of damage with just a single Curing Waltz III? Sure, they can Snarl it, but that is still ridiculous that they need to in that context in the first place.

ANd snarl only works if the master builds emnity which the master isn't going to be building any significant emnity on anything that actually needs a tank.

[machini]

ANd snarl only works if the master builds emnity which the master isn't going to be building any significant emnity on anything that actually needs a tank.

Wait, are you saying that BST is complicated, more complicated than people who have never played it understand, and that knee-jerk reactions are bad things? That this nerf was, perhaps, not a good idea, and that there were better alternatives that would have yielded better results while not completely pissing off anyone who cares about BST?

[bazookatooth]

Wait, are you saying that BST is complicated, more complicated than people who have never played it understand, and that knee-jerk reactions are bad things? That this nerf was, perhaps, not a good idea, and that there were better alternatives that would have yielded better results while not completely pissing off anyone who cares about BST?

Yeah, more or less.

[Olor]

The suggested changes relayed by Camate sound just as terrible as what we have now. I don't see any reason to keep my sub up.

[Alhanelem]

When you are discussing the ability of a pet to tank - then yes - enmity is definitely a relevant factor and not an irrelevant tangent.

It's typically irrelevant in the context of how we're tanking. In SMN's case,typically you're only tanking against other SMNs, people who know what's going on and control their output accordingly, etc. PUP can generate plenty enough enmity with the release of the 2nd strobe attachment (and keeps itself alive with repairkit regen, repair oils, and also cannibal blade healing it for like 1k and never missing). The only difference with BST is it doesn't have to do anything to tank. The reason it's an irrelevant tangent is because it's irrelevant to the fact that tanking on the other pet jobs (except DRG) is possible.

In shorter terms, the simple fact is PUP can tank when geared properly. SMN only ever has to tank against itself and/or probably other SMNs, and is perfectly able to do so.