[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Ataraxia]

What notorious monster is this? Please do tell cause I can't think of a single relevant/modern NM I can kill solo that would be difficult for most other jobs to solo...

Try not to let Dale bother you too much. I don't think that guy even play BST and it's jealous because he doesn't know how to play his job.
Notice the part when he said "Just take your pick - any of the normal, difficult, very difficult higher-tier battlefields which the Beast Master could easily solo.

Wow did he just say BST can do ANY high tier battlefields on difficult and very difficult? that's is an embarrassment to make such a claim that a BST can that. If he's referring to avatar that take high level of concentration to do that and there is no way a regular BST can pull it out without dying. I know BST can do some avatar on difficult and might need Dawn Mulsum but those BST are at 1200. I don't wanna call it a solo if people resort using trust when double trust event is up.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

What notorious monster is this? Please do tell cause I can't think of a single relevant/modern NM I can kill solo that would be difficult for most other jobs to solo...

He's probably talking about Leaping Lizzie etc...

[Dale]

All you complainers about how BST has to get close... here you go of a BST soloing very difficult ark angel mithra:

There are more if this one example isn't enough. The distance nerf wasn't enough. Pets shouldn't be able to not only tank as well as a PLD but do damage as well as a DD against very difficult NMs while the master just sits there doing job emotes laughing all the way. Pets should be able to tank OR do damage, not both. That is what needs to be fixed.

I agree with you. They probably do also when they are honest with themselves. But once you get used to power it's hard to let go of - and a lot of them are probably in self-denial and refusing to admit it to themselves because they and understandably so were enjoying being an entire party all unto themselves.

[Fynlar]

Wow, the distance nerf wasn't enough to make an enemy with only one threatening, Utsusemi-blockable AoE unsoloable by BST/NIN, wow.

I said wow twice to properly convey my shock.

[bazookatooth]

There's also a video of scholar soloing that fight. Maybe scholar needs to be in melee range with a damage reduction too. There are also several videos of other jobs soloing that fight at lower difficulties. What difficulty does it have to be before we cry nerf? Should we nerf NIN and DNC and BLU and SMN too? /smh

[Arthos]

I wonder why noone mentions RDM when it comes to D/VD solo fights. But it doesn't matter because i think it's proven that other jobs can solo the same difficulty, probably even more and better than BST.
It's not a problem anyway, most relevant content can't be solo'd, it needs 3 Person in party to start it. Soloing is more a way to test the own skills than getting drops.

[Elexia]

I wonder why noone mentions RDM when it comes to D/VD solo fights. But it doesn't matter because i think it's proven that other jobs can solo the same difficulty, probably even more and better than BST.
It's not a problem anyway, most relevant content can't be solo'd, it needs 3 Person in party to start it. Soloing is more a way to test the own skills than getting drops.

RDM has been a soloer since the early days, but it was designed to be versatile..and it actually needed adjustments to be caught up. RDM is powerful but you didn't see a mass shift towards RDM like you did BST for a specific reason. It's not better what BST were doing, nowhere near - you even need more as RDM to do what a 'typical' BST could do. As said, it's not a problem that BST got powerful..it's the circumstances around it that drew attention. They wouldn't have developed the magic resistance patch (every real mage from back in the day knows this well) or develop ToAU around the brunt of the content being less mage friendly progression wise (i.e leveling wise.)

(It needs x people to start it!)

Anyone who's been playing XI for any length of time knows people run additional characters themselves to start content, whether you should or not. So the whole solo thing isn't a problem, people wouldn't be going to BST or wanting BST parties only for stuff if things were "fine" you know?

As much as people are trying to drag Samurai into this, outta saltiness:

The initial 2 handed patch allowed Samurais to deal insane damage while naked. Guess how fast they reverted that patch even though it only affected SE's lovechild?

[bazookatooth]

RDM has been a soloer since the early days, but it was designed to be versatile..and it actually needed adjustments to be caught up. RDM is powerful but you didn't see a mass shift towards RDM like you did BST for a specific reason. It's not better what BST were doing, nowhere near - you even need more as RDM to do what a 'typical' BST could do. As said, it's not a problem that BST got powerful..it's the circumstances around it that drew attention. They wouldn't have developed the magic resistance patch (every real mage from back in the day knows this well) or develop ToAU around the brunt of the content being less mage friendly progression wise (i.e leveling wise.)

(It needs x people to start it!)

Anyone who's been playing XI for any length of time knows people run additional characters themselves to start content, whether you should or not. So the whole solo thing isn't a problem, people wouldn't be going to BST or wanting BST parties only for stuff if things were "fine" you know?

As much as people are trying to drag Samurai into this, outta saltiness:

The initial 2 handed patch allowed Samurais to deal insane damage while naked. Guess how fast they reverted that patch even though it only affected SE's lovechild?

Ermm... Sam still does crazy damage via skill chains. And I played BLM throughout ToaU without a problem. What did I have to change jobs for? Salvage and...

[Dale]

I'm speaking in general terms about content across the entirety of the game over the years, not just what people do this very moment. Also, the valoredge puppet properly configured can actually tank a lot of stuff (having 100 or 1200 JP makes it really effective as well). BST might be the best at it, but the other pet jobs have kited or tanked all kinds of NMs and content throughout FFXI's history. Have you never heard of summoner burns? When WoE was new (and pretty much even to this day), many of the first clears were all or mostly summoners throwing pets at it- Although summons won't survive as long as BST pets, they also can be resummoned quickly and immediately. I've pet tanked a variety of NMs over the years on SMN. It's not a new concept and it's not exclusive to BST.

Enmity can be managed on the other pet jobs, so I'm not even considering that a factor in this.

Most of your post is smoke and mirrors.

I never said pet tanking is a new concept. I never said other pet jobs have never kited or tanked NMs through-out FF XI's history.

You made the claim that all other pet jobs were capable of doing what Beast Masters can. That's just not the case. Nothing in your post has convinced me otherwise. You even seem to admit the Beast Master is the best at it (which was my point). So to be honest with you I'm not even sure what it is we are debating at this point.

[Jile]

BST has been forced to solo by design and by community exile from day one. The fact we can solo is not the key issue, because the entire game is being pushed forward a solo centric attitude and design so, of course BST is going to expand as people are forced to solo as the servers shrink and individuals game time also shrinks.

Now that said, I'll admit a damage adjustment was and is needed for several jobs but the Nerf BST received was unnecessary and is inconsistent and should be undone with the damage adjustment put in its place.

The game is winding down. Lets not make overreaching changes to any functionality of a job at this stage.

Community reps, please respond, is the dev team looking at this problem?