[dev1289] Job Adjustments

[Stompa]

The biggest difference is the Rudra's nerf didn't take away a style of play that had existed since the job began. It took away part of a buff. And the second biggest difference is Rudra's is still very good. BST, not so much.

Pre-nerf BST was not actually "the style of play that had existed since the job began" at all. The original BST had jugpets that died in a couple of hits from any strong mob, and their pet healing was on reward timer without mulsum spam. The original job was all about charm-chaining, the only times you used jugpets were if all charm mobs were down, or if you were in an easy bcnm. My first Maat win was on BST in 2005 and I paid a fortune for a single Panzer jug, the pet still died in short time lol. Jugpets were super weak back then, before stout servant.

So the original BST "style of play" was never about calling these new Siege Engine pets and just spamming mulsums. Reward was long-range because the master rarely meleed any seriously powerful mobs, most BST stood far away from those mobs, with a light/earth staff equipped, and SS/blink up lol. So it made sense for BST to have long range remote-mode pet commands.

But the job mechanics changed in Aby, no charm pets available, and BST was encouraged to be more melee. We understand that SE have tried to find the right balance since then, because the original BST job was turned upside down in 2010, and since that time we got ilvl pets, which again affected the job balance.

I can see why SE needed to rebalance BST again, it was never designed to be played the way it has been recently. But I also agree with many posters here, that it is ridiculous to have such a tiny reward range, that if you are on other side of the mob you can't cure your pet. That range is too short, clearly.

[Olor]

When he lower the BST range he said Nothing! nothing at all.

Actually they told Japanese players well in advance but never translated it until much later. JP players complaining about BST is why it was nerfed. Pretty much everything the devs tell us over here is translated from JP forums. They don't listen to us.

[Alhanelem]

Actually they told Japanese players well in advance but never translated it until much later. JP players complaining about BST is why it was nerfed. Pretty much everything the devs tell us over here is translated from JP forums. They don't listen to us.

Not entirely true, as there are some topics (Mostly the "We don't have any plans" ones) where we get a response that weren't brought up on the JP side.

[Ataraxia]

Not entirely true, as there are some topics (Mostly the "We don't have any plans" ones) where we get a response that weren't brought up on the JP side.

Yeah I heard that a lot from Grekumuh. :/

[Ataraxia]

Actually they told Japanese players well in advance but never translated it until much later. JP players complaining about BST is why it was nerfed. Pretty much everything the devs tell us over here is translated from JP forums. They don't listen to us.

That is not cool at all. In fact here in Odin i know a really good player who use a lot of BST battle strategy and they are JP. Lots of JP use BST battle strategy during JP hour and there is nothing wrong with it. For them to not translate for the NA player is so wrong in many ways. They also post it on update but they didn't say how much the range was reduce either. It was all blank until you log on and play BST than you be OMG!!!

So we all need to stick around this forum and support BST to the end. =)

[Alhanelem]

Beast Master was insanely powerful with their super cricket out

Well, if they're insanely powerful with their super cricket whatever thingy, then why would they not adjust that instead of adjusting pet command range?

Your argument doesn't have anything to do with the change that was made, and the change that was made does nothing to address the problem you're alleging exists. Even if it is a problem (and I'm not conceding that it is), the change SE made does nothing to fix it.

This is nothing new: so it seems to me from reading this that Beast Master is just having to deal with the same crap every other melee class on this game has to.

BST is barely more of a melee class than the other pet jobs. It gets some more heavy armor gear options (though most of those options don't help your pet), but it's still not super sturdy like a PLD or WAR. Still, from the screenshots ive seen people post, and from comments ive seen here and in game, the range was reduced to so short that you can easily be in melee range of the mob and not able to command your pet. If they want to make it so you can't be standing in absolute safety and play the job like SMN, well, I can sort of understand that (I don't agree but I understand), but the change was so drastic that you have to be litreally glued to your pet's behind in order to give it commands.

PUP generally melees with its pet and they weren't affected by this- another reason why the change makes no sense. This change might not be the end of the world, but it simply causes aggravation for no good reason. JP players have already testified they can still kick butt with BST, so obviously the change didn't achieve it's intended purpose.

[Stompa]

BST is barely more of a melee class than the other pet jobs. It gets some more heavy armor gear options (though most of those options don't help your pet), but it's still not super sturdy like a PLD or WAR.

I liked and agreed with your whole post, but I snipped this line because it is particularly salient. I think you convey the confusing messages on the job change well.

For six years, we played BST as a mage job. I was on a BST-only LS on Remora, and the LS chat was always talking about MP-gear, how to get star-necklace from quest, how great lamia-mantle+1 was for MP, etc.etc. When you started levelling BST, the first thing they told you was "level WHM sub." You had to actually level WHM37 before you even started levelling your BST. Nobody levelled WAR or other melee subs, and most people played BST/WHM full-time, with occasional BST/NIN in events, but that was only for shadows, not the dual-wield.

BST was built around this idea that the master is super-squishy, and out in the wilderness when you solo or low-man, you needed /WHM and you need as much MP gear as you can get. Obviously the arrival of /DNC changed all jobs to a certain extent, and the level 75+ era changed BST itself completely, and ILVL gear made all jobs quite uniformly Robocop. But underlying it was really that the beastmaster was a kind of wilderness druid, a mage job with axes and a natural affinity with all wild beasts. There was never a suggestion that this job was a front-line soldier type of job, and in the 2004~2010 years the BST job was actually a master of white magic, carefully using MP and spells to stay safe while the charmed beasts did the fighting almost out of visual range.

I think this is the problem, the job has changed so much, and the ilvl game is so different, that the original core nature of jobs have struggled to adapt. Sometimes SE will try to help jobs adapt, by changing them stronger/weaker, but what we are left with is some of the original jobs trying to play outside of their comfort zone.

[Keido]

... so obviously the change didn't achieve it's intended purpose.

Yes it did. Already the bandwagon players have moved on from it and you are seeing the truly skilled players that love the job adapt and overcome. Pretty sure I stated that this was going to happen and it is. It exactly why we don't see BLU spam. The Reward to Power ratio is high but only if you really know the job and invest the time to understand and maximize it. Again this was the perfect solution and its having the desired effect.

[Dale]

Well, if they're insanely powerful with their super cricket whatever thingy, then why would they not adjust that instead of adjusting pet command range?

That's a good question.

Perhaps that would have been the better route to take. My point to you is that some changes were necessary. Rather or not this was the right change is dubious. But something did have to happen. The job was way out of whack. Those of you acting like this job was just fine the way it was are kidding yourselves.

What these changes do is force the Beast Master to get up close and take incoming damage. That's what it was intended to do. It was too powerful to have them sitting back out of harm's way tanking some of the most powerful notorious monsters in the game with their pets while doing crazy damage to boot. Any fair minded person who is not bias because they play the job should be able to admit that.

Again: rather or not this was the right way to go about it is not the argument I'm making. What I am doing is challenging your assertion that no changes were necessary because I believe changes were necessary.

[Malthar]

I don't know about you guys, but ever since the nerf I've lost a lot of interest in FFXI and started playing Elite: Dangerous more. I spend, maybe, an hour in FFXI now and the rest in Elite: Dangerous. It's become a more fun game now. How wrong is that?!