Nerf Beastmaster

[kylani]

Look again at shouts:

http://i.imgur.com/LA8dKeP.png

There is 3 SR shouts within the last hour all wanting bst. Some of the shouts you posted were after the bst spot got filled. Of course people will still shout for whm, tank, cor etc after filling other spots. Anyone can go look at shouts and see them.

So you have no trouble with GEO and WHM being wanted for everything, just BST being wanted for SR?

[Cyleena]

I did feel that your comments were negative initially too, but I hope it's just differences between servers/perceptions. When I hear bandwagon bsts and that no one really had a bst main till the job became 'overpowered', it raises my hackles a bit. I'm glad I'm not on Asura.

When I was talking about bandwagon bst I was not talking about those that played the job before it got stronger. I was talking about those that had other jobs as main but switched over once that happened just like they do for any other job that gets boosted. I am talking about people I have had experience with, or read about on forums (some of the forum posters I know in game too, so I know if they bandwagon or not). Most of those are the ones that like to get upset and argue if anyone says anything they do not like. They defend these jobs with a passion then once a nerf hits they go back to being main on the job they were before all this happened.

When I said no one had bst main until it became overpowered I was talking about on my server of people that I knew. I was not talking about all bst. It was like when thf Rudra boost came out and all of a sudden all these people started having thf, and making Vajra, etc. Then it got nerfed, and poof most the thf disappeared again besides the occasional thf for treasure hunter.

For example, I have 2 people in my LS that geared beast after it got stronger, and always want to come to events on bst. I have let them come on bst a handful of times. I have to deal with unhappy people because I let bst come to events, unhappy bsts that I call on different jobs, etc. It depends on what your LS has as far as job availability for the event content you do. I have had bandwagon bst threaten to emo log off game since people were saying it should be nerfed, it’s too powerful, etc. (Please do not twist this into I am saying this stuff… I am talking about things I have experienced with others.)

As far as the difference between servers and perceptions this is totally true. Each server has different type of player base, different players with different attitudes, and Asura is very famous for not having the nicest player base, This is evident in town a lot (lately been more quiet but some nights it gets pretty drama filled), and in how people act in shout runs etc. People on Asura are kinda stubborn, and if they find out a setup that works they stick to it and do not change. I am sure this happens on other servers as well but we have a lot of stubborn people on Asura. Lol.

I think that ever since leveling became easier, there have always been people who will switch to the flavor of the month job, and there always will be. The hatred that I've seen towards BST seems new and particularly unpleasant to me.

There is a great deal of people who are switching to the flavor of the month job as you said, and every time there is a job boost this happens. The hatred for bst has been pretty bad, but there was also a lot of hatred to thf, etc when Rudra’s was boosted. Unfortunately, there is always going to be hatred to any job that can do massive dmg, or can match other jobs or outshine others.

I also think that some of the issue is not the job but the players themselves. People give jobs bad reputations. For example, I was in a cp party with a group in Escha. We were at a camp by ourselves off the beaten path, and we were there for like 5 hrs. This bst shows up and starts to AOE our pulls. We ask him to stop and he does not even reply but keeps doing it. He had lots of other mobs in the area he could fight but he just wanted to be a not pleasant person. This got many people in the pt upset with bst cause of this. I know any other job can do the same thing and has done the same thing like blue, blm, geo, etc. Does this make me hate all bst, or blue, or blm? No. But it does make people unhappier with the jobs because of what some people do who play them. Again this comes down to the player base. Do all bst do this or blue or blm or w/e? No. Just a few bad apples can spoil the bunch for some people.

As leader of a ls, I bet you've said or heard, if you want to participate in end game, level the job that's needed. Now that folks are switching to BST because it's useful, BST are all bad players that everyone else hates. Was every person who ever switched to BRD/SAM/MONK/WHM etc to get end game gear also labeled as bad players with jobs that need nerfing? I don't understand why BST is so different. Content can be done with other jobs. It's the people who have the perception. It sounds like we agree on that part of the equation.

I totally agree to the perception and like I have said above and in other posts that some people are just used to doing things a certain way and do not like making changes to setups etc. People also like taking advantage of the fast kills, with minimal support needed. Bst really only needs cor support atm, and maybe an occasional heal, or other tank depending on what you are doing. DD needs tons more support than a bst does, so bst is more favorable because it kills fast, requires minimal support, and does very good dmg.

As far as the level what job is needed of course I have said that and heard that from others. It depends on the game content. Some game content requires more specific setups then others. Like what was mentioned earlier Vagary does not do so well with DD, and is more mage friendly. I have tried to mix bst with our setup but it does not go over well in my LS. We are more mage heavy, and it tends to be hard to do SC etc when you got one or two pets messing it up. If you using Sch to SC or bringing a DD like sam then bst kind of makes it harder to do what strat you want to use, or are accustomed to use. Again this is player perception, and what works for one might not work for another. If you have more pets in your LS you might feel that is the best for you. It really depends on your group, and what jobs are available for the content you want to do.

I duoed thru Abyssea with a PUP, and it was great fun, but other jobs could solo/duo far quicker with less risk and less cost. BST was a joke for Delve and Skirmish. I think any job could hit better than my pet. I know our WHM did (though he was a truly amazing WHM, so I'm not sure it's fair to go by him. I just know my pet whiffed with all the accuracy pet gear i could drum up). So I played BRD and BLM, occasionally RDM. My pup friend leveled PLD and SMN. We never fussed about how OP monks were with Formless Strikes. Much fun as we had completing the content, I got burned out working for gear for jobs I didn't love instead of playing BST or RDM, so I took a break. When I came back, I promised myself I would not do end game and haven't. I've focused on story and leveling whatever I felt like leveling, and it's been great.

I did that in abby too. Lol. We would duo pup and whm. We used to kite the monkey in Abby Latheine that dropped that pup neck just to see if we could when it first came out. That was so much fun, and challenging. We later switched to monk and whm for some of the harder NMs at the time in Abby Ule, etc.

Now that BST is good for content and folks are hating on it so badly, it rankles. I have friends who win without BST just fine. Do you really think people need BST to win the Tenzen fight? If so, then maybe Asura has bigger problems than too many BSTs. Maybe on Asura, people playing other jobs are terrible.

I think it just depends on the group. Some groups do fine without pet jobs, and some do better with pet jobs. At the end of the day it is what works for the group, and their setup. That was actually the first time I seen bst wanted for a Tenzen fight, and I did not recognize the name of the person who shouted, so not sure why they wanted that but if it got them the win that is great.

The biggest issue with shouts is the ones that shout for bsts are mainly Escha and SR, which are the two main content that is most wanted atm, and I hear a lot of complaints that most people just want bst to clear those. I guess others feel left out because they cannot join the shouts? Idk.

[Ulth]

So you have no trouble with GEO and WHM being wanted for everything, just BST being wanted for SR?

At least with whm they only want the one whm, geo on the other hand, people like to geo all the things and sometimes want multiple geos.

[Cyleena]

So you have no trouble with GEO and WHM being wanted for everything, just BST being wanted for SR?

You can do shouts without geo and whm. Bst perform better with cor and geo buffs though, but if you need a healer you can do it with rdm, sch, anything that cures. It is people not being more willing to try different setups that people complain about.

At least with whm they only want the one whm, geo on the other hand, people like to geo all the things and sometimes want multiple geos.

I agree. You do not even need two geo for SR. We did it tonight with just one, and it was np. There is many ways and setups to doing SR, and I agree multiple geo are not necessary.

[kylani]

At least with whm they only want the one whm, geo on the other hand, people like to geo all the things and sometimes want multiple geos.

I'm definitely not asking that either get nerfed. I just find the dichotomy interesting.

[kylani]

For example, I have 2 people in my LS that geared beast after it got stronger, and always want to come to events on bst. I have let them come on bst a handful of times. I have to deal with unhappy people because I let bst come to events, unhappy bsts that I call on different jobs, etc. It depends on what your LS has as far as job availability for the event content you do. I have had bandwagon bst threaten to emo log off game since people were saying it should be nerfed, it’s too powerful, etc. (Please do not twist this into I am saying this stuff… I am talking about things I have experienced with others.)

As far as the difference between servers and perceptions this is totally true. Each server has different type of player base, different players with different attitudes, and Asura is very famous for not having the nicest player base, This is evident in town a lot (lately been more quiet but some nights it gets pretty drama filled), and in how people act in shout runs etc. People on Asura are kinda stubborn, and if they find out a setup that works they stick to it and do not change. I am sure this happens on other servers as well but we have a lot of stubborn people on Asura. Lol.

Thanks for the info. I can understand frustrations within a ls. I feel I've been fortunate with the LS I've been in, but there has still been some drama in the end game ones, and cliques in the smaller ones. It's hard to make everyone happy. Good luck. You've made me appreciate my server and friends all the more.

[Cyleena]

I'm definitely not asking that either get nerfed. I just find the dichotomy interesting.

You can easily replace the whm with another job that cures like I mentioned, and your group might not need a curer and you can bring something else if you want like a second cor. You can take brd instead of geo as well. Most the shouts that want geo though are ones that have bst in setup. Brd does not work good for bst buffs, and geo and cor are very wanted for bst setup. I have heard a lot of people who have brd geared and leveled complain about not being wanted anymore for runs because of this. Just depends on the setup, and the person leading the run.

Not every shout on Asura is for bst. Of course you do not need bst for VW, skirmish etc. But if you watch shouts there is rarely a SR shout, or Escha shout (especially RuAun) that does not ask for bst, and I hear the complaints about it all the time. It is just the player base and perspective as mentioned in other posts. It sucks for those that do not have pet jobs leveled to join any of that content atm, and that might not have groups to go with but on the other hand this has always been a issue anytime a job gets a boost. Look at all the jobs not being used anymore like war, drk, etc. I know people who made mythic war and they never use them anymore. A lot of people have been left out and had to adjust to the times of the game.

[Cyleena]

Thanks for the info. I can understand frustrations within a ls. I feel I've been fortunate with the LS I've been in, but there has still been some drama in the end game ones, and cliques in the smaller ones. It's hard to make everyone happy. Good luck. You've made me appreciate my server and friends all the more.

It is totally frustrating. I even gave my 2 bst a personal cor as a buffer (sometimes a mule, sometimes a main cor plus geo buffs etc) for themselves and the cor, and that did not sit well with others (this is mainly cause the bst we bring are kinda demanding and want certain buffs and get grouchy if they do not get them). It can end up being really stressful, and frustrating. My LS does not have that many people with pet jobs leveled and geared though. We have 2 bst that are, and a couple smn, and everyone else has mage and dd leveled and geared that they utilize. If we had more pet jobs maybe it would be different, idk. We always run with 12+ people, so only having a couple pet jobs and a bunch of mages kinda makes it awkward for setup not to mention that the bst always want idris buffs instead of buffs from the non idris geo, etc.

Btw most times like I mentioned the cor is a mule being duo boxed, and if it is a main cor they shoot, etc to do dmg, and participate even though in bst pt. Like I said my group goes with 12+ (most times 14-15 people, so we do not have just a tank pt, and a mage pt but have a 3rd pt as well that the bst would sit in, with a cor). My mage pt is usually full with blm, geo, rdm, and sch, and do not need cor rolls. We normally never have a lack of geo (3-4 geo with us, and have 2 idris geo though sometimes one has to play a different job). We work with what jobs we have available for those who are with us on runs. Like I said before my group is mage heavy and hardly do not have any pet jobs.

It is hard to make everyone happy though I try. Sometimes it just makes you want to hit your head on the desk. lol

[Olor]

Another random time:

Fenrir: PLD RUN GEO BRD THF
Capacity points: GEO SCH
Capacity points: GEO SCH BLM RDM COR
unity: PLD WHM

No BST shouts since I got online... I don't know. I hear people *say* that there is so many BST shouts but somehow I never see them either when I am afk in Jeuno or when I look at ffxiah shouts... yes, I see one event sometimes asks for BST, but even then not always and the jobs most in demand most of the time are PLD GEO and WHM but no one is asking for those jobs to be nerfed

proof: http://i.imgur.com/fRgo90E.jpg

[bazookatooth]

Cor rolls last like what 7 minutes? Most fights don't even last that long. You can apply them before the fight and then put the cor back in the mage / DD party. In many cases that would be the same party the bsts are in already. There is absolutely no reason for the cor to have to be dedicated to the bst party. If that is what you're doing then you are doing it wrong. No job should ever get to use 1 job ability before a fight and then just sit there and get the win. If you put a cor in a bst party just to sit there and watch them kill it instead of having them buff the rest of your group, then people have a right to be angry about it. But they should be mad at you and that cor who's just sitting there. Not the bst.

Do yourself and everyone else a favor. If you're in escha, put that cor in the bst party, have him give them rolls and then go to whatever other party needs support. If the fight drags on, swapping a cor in and out once is going to be well worth the effort of writing one party invite macro. If you're in sinister reign, he can apply bst rolls and then go stand on the other side of the arena and support the whm / geo / pld /DDs with rolls away from the bsts. If you're doing it right, the bst should never need to be in range of the NMs tp moves or any of the other players other than the 60 seconds it takes to apply their rolls leaving the cor free to roll whatever he wants on everyone else.