Nerf Beastmaster

[dasva]

Haha it's called direct magic damage reduction. No amount of lower magic evasion is going to increase the damage to respectable levels, ever nuke water on something resistant to it like leech?

You said resistance not mdt or sdt. Comparing physical evasion to sdt/mdt is horribly disingenuous. A better comparison would be to physical sdts and pdts. Guess what no matter how much you lower def or evasion your tiger is going to do horrible dmg to that same leech as well while the blm if they are paying attention is going to switch elements... and if they were knowledgeable wouldn't have used the water in the first place

How are the T3 escha NMs and caturae fights where jugs don't do well? I've seen BST do all of them np, maybe its just your skill? Brimboil has been done, even by the guy you even mentioned with a testimonial on it. He used a grasshopper buffed with all his JA to straight up melee it down. Perfidien can be done the same way it would just take a while, which isn't too bad considering hes quick to pop with the KI. AA TT petrify doesn't last that long, you can stand on the stairs and spam heals. Beist? lol you can melee him down on the BST with trusts/trust tank. Sensual Sandy? Why... Not gonna keep going into them all but each case isn't something a BST can't overcome with support, pretty much all of those things you listed you can spam heal through np.

There are a lot of NMs in the game that are resistant to magic where it takes a direct reduction in damage, they added even more in this last update. The thing is, you can still win but its clearly inferior to physical DD and BST pets. This really isn't true for BST, you can probably bet almost anything added with a few exceptions will be able to be done with them being optimal. My only point was that you are posting a SS of two BLM's doing Death as if it was proof they needed to be nerfed when it clearly is isolated and not true across every NM that is relevant. You aren't doing 99,999+ Death dmg to every NM in the game, yet you are using that SS and previously one of Plouton as your proof other jobs are better and need to be nerfed over BST. Your posts come across very condescending and trollish. You realize the jobs potential but don't want it adjusted so you try to talk down to anyone with a negative opinion of BST as if they are mentally challenged and don't see the obvious.

Doing them isn't the same as doing them well. Way to move the goal posts. A lot of those are either problems with how much dmg you can do... yeah you can get them done but it takes forever either due to evasion or dmg reductions or debilitating debuffs that can't be removed (btw that last one was the reason for perfiden). And some of them even with perfect DT gear and perfect reward sets you are riding reward timers and sometimes fall short. Dots in particularly are hard to deal with since dt doesn't work and no naws.

Really I'm not sure what point you are making here you acknowledge that in several fights bst can still power thru things with proper support and gear and spamming heal and waiting things out and that's bad but then right away say that blms can also power thru things they aren't as good at.... me being trollish? You are the one that consistently applies double standards such as that one. If you can't see it maybe there is something wrong with you... I mean seriously you back to back say one thing is ok for other jobs but bad for bst. And no I'm not trying to say other jobs need to be nerfed. Other than that bit of obvious satire I was doing I've definitely stated that the point of dmg comparisons was to show there is no need for nerfs because plenty of others can do as much

Deal "good" damage and be the most optimal choice are completely different things. People are shouting for BST for all content for a reason. "Everyone realizes this" but me? Damn dude, you really are trying to attack me. I seem to have struck a nerve.

I agree. Good thing bsts aren't the most optimal most the time. Shouting is rather poor logic. I mean most the shouts I see are for sch blm and geo pld and whm. That's not an attack quit the pity party. It's simple statement of fact that was admittedly exaggerated. The vast majority of the players I find are quite aware other jobs can deal tons of dmg. And a nerve ha funny

I'm really starting to see what people said about you to be true now lol. Blatant mistruths? Show me them. Lack of logical coherence in my arguments, examples? Seems like another personal attack. I haven't personally attacked any real poster in this thread except maybe the fake mule account that troll is hiding behind.Each post has typically 4 +s, not hard to guess as 3 of them are arguing for BST in this very thread and its not exactly a very active forum lol.

And here is more of what I mean. You cry that everyone is attacking you for disagreeing with you and then your response is a blatant attempt at character assassination. I mean I could make similar statements myself....but I'm trying to keep this a discussion about ideas and not people. And then you have the nerve to call statements about what you say as personal attacks. Is this opposite world? Do you honestly believe that attacking someone's point is personal but attacking the person themselves isn't? Because I got news for you that's not how it works.

Blatant mistruths? How about how you've previously said 10k dmg every 10 seconds is something no other DD can do? How about your earlier statements about how hardly any nms have debuffs that matter to bst... I just listed a few and what do you do? Brush it off with like oh well just wait it out or spam heal or get a tank. Well gee because other jobs can't do the same AND have those statuses cured. You say things like you don't make personal attacks except on "trolls" on "fake accounts" a few sentences after a personal attack. Or like how you claim that saying the things that you are saying are wrong or illogical is a [/I]personal[/I] attacks. If I wanted to make that a personal attack I would've said something about your motivation to do so or the say something about the character of person that would say those things. Ya know what you've done. As far as lack of logical coherence ok how about when you make a huge deal about how unfair it is that a melee can be paralyzed for a few seconds until it gets cured because it lowers dps. But when presented with situations where bsts dps gets lowered by even greater amounts and can't be cured you act like there is no problem. With make talk about how magic dmg can be reduced then blatantly pretend like physical can't be. Or like how you try to compare actual direct dmg reductions to mere evasion.

I will give you this though it seems like you do get where the pluses likely come from now. It's obviously people who agree in a thread without a lot of traffic... and yeah in a bst forums so likely to have more innate support though obviously not universal. But on the other hand if this was really such a big problem don't you think it would see more traffic from non bsts? Instead it's mostly a few people who play the job that would be here regardless of the state of the job. I mean when thf finally got it's 15 minutes Rudra's was hotly debated by both sides in much larger amounts on all the forums. Whether you think it was good or bad it was definitely a big deal. This though? Relatively minor attention.

P.S. Didn't see it earlier but yes there is an ignore function. Click on the persons name to go to their profile should be easy to find from there

[kylani]

P.S. Didn't see it earlier but yes there is an ignore function. Click on the persons name to go to their profile should be easy to find from there

Thank you! For this and your excellent posts.

[Cyleena]

But on the other hand if this was really such a big problem don't you think it would see more traffic from non bsts? Instead it's mostly a few people who play the job that would be here regardless of the state of the job. I mean when thf finally got it's 15 minutes Rudra's was hotly debated by both sides in much larger amounts on all the forums. Whether you think it was good or bad it was definitely a big deal. This though? Relatively minor attention.

Maybe it is more of the fact that beast is very disliked atm but people do not want to come on here and get bashed like the bst seem to be doing to anyone that talks bad about the job and mention the word nerf. I hear tons of people on the actual game say how much they dislike how bst is and cannot wait until the nerf. Just because it is not getting tons of people on the official forum saying stuff does not mean that people are happy about bst. I hear complaints daily about bst on ffxi lol. My LS hates me even having bst come to events, and I hear about it if I even have anyone on bst. People complain in shouts on Asura, etc. All the relevant content shouts nowadays are bst bst bst bst bst especially for SR and Escha T2/T3. People are liking the easy way to kill stuff, and only want bst to join these groups, which does make a lot of people unhappy.

[dasva]

Maybe it is more of the fact that beast is very disliked atm but people do not want to come on here and get bashed like the bst seem to be doing to anyone that talks bad about the job and mention the word nerf. I hear tons of people on the actual game say how much they dislike how bst is and cannot wait until the nerf. Just because it is not getting tons of people on the official forum saying stuff does not mean that people are happy about bst. I hear complaints daily about bst on ffxi lol. My LS hates me even having bst come to events, and I hear about it if I even have anyone on bst. People complain in shouts on Asura, etc. All the shouts nowadays are bst bst bst bst bst. People are liking the easy way to kill stuff, and only want bst to join their groups, which does make a lot of people unhappy.

Bst has always kind of been the red head step child though. Way before our pets could even hit anything people would hate on me for using it. Anyways this really seems to be more of a server problem. Asura people are saying all you see want for bst but on Shiva everyone wants nukers and the shouts for schs always even specify the want for ones that can skillchain. Makes me want to go back to my blm and put more effort back into it. The only consistent shouts for bst I see are from Samus and he is shouting for 10 other jobs for 18 man vagary and DM lol

[Cyleena]

Bst has always kind of been the red head step child though. Way before our pets could even hit anything people would hate on me for using it. Anyways this really seems to be more of a server problem. Asura people are saying all you see want for bst but on Shiva everyone wants nukers and the shouts for schs always even specify the want for ones that can skillchain. Makes me want to go back to my blm and put more effort back into it. The only consistent shouts for bst I see are from Samus and he is shouting for 10 other jobs for 18 man vagary and DM lol

It very well could be a server thing. Before bst became powerful it was all mages as well that was wanted on Asura (Vagary etc kinda forced that). Now it is totally all bst for almost anything, which I hear complaints about from others daily about groups only wanting bst. Sogoro and I were even watching shouts last night in town and talking and people were shouting for only bst with cap JP for a Escha RuAun T3 NM (not Morta), which is totally not needed but this guy was saying he wanted guaranteed win etc.

I totally know bst been the red head step child. Before bst got powerful it was not used for anything besides being solo, and a lot of people on game still feel that it should be for that. I have heard many people say that. I have two people in my LS with bst geared for endgame, and I have brought them to events a handful of times but bst is not very well liked in my ls. I get lots of complaints if I bring pet jobs because people do not think we should be wasting buffs for them, etc. My LS is more mage heavy and does not have many pet jobs, (2 bst, and a few smn is all and they not "main" jobs but geared and ready to use). I am kinda stuck in the middle with using pet jobs in event. If I do not bring them then they are unhappy. If I do then everyone else is unhappy. Sigh, sometimes it sucks to be a leader of a LS. I try to make everyone happy but realistically that is not possible.

[dasva]

It very well could be a server thing. Before bst became powerful it was all mages as well that was wanted on Asura (Vagary etc kinda forced that). Now it is totally all bst for almost anything, which I hear complaints about from others daily about groups only wanting bst. Sogoro and I were even watching shouts last night in town and talking and people were shouting for only bst with cap JP for a Escha RuAun T3 NM (not Morta), which is totally not needed but this guy was saying he wanted guaranteed win etc.

I totally know bst been the red head step child. Before bst got powerful it was not used for anything besides being solo, and a lot of people on game still feel that it should be for that. I have heard many people say that. I have two people in my LS with bst geared for endgame, and I have brought them to events a handful of times but bst is not very well liked in my ls. I get lots of complaints if I bring pet jobs because people do not think we should be wasting buffs for them, etc. My LS is more mage heavy and does not have many pet jobs, (2 bst, and a few smn is all and they not "main" jobs but geared and ready to use). I am kinda stuck in the middle with using pet jobs in event. If I do not bring them then they are unhappy. If I do then everyone else is unhappy. Sigh, sometimes it sucks to be a leader of a LS. I try to make everyone happy but realistically that is not possible.

Also depends on content... I don't think anything but mages was ever popular for vagary here other than having sams for skillchaining. But for other stuff before bsts it was generally either mages or rngs for safer content (though rngs have really lost popularity since the enmity update) and sam, blu and/or thf for melee dmg blu especially when mixed dmg, terror and/or requiescat was good. But yeah of the shouts I could read last night 1 was for lol 18 man vagary which was looking for blm, bst, brd, pld, whm, sch, brd, cor, geo and pld. Then there was like 3 SR shouts all of them asking for whm, geo, blm and sch (that can skillchain). Speaking of server shout differences just how common are shouts for higher up escha because we don't see hardly any over here at least English ones during NA/JP time (I'm rarely on during EU time)

Part of that was it was basically just a bad axe warrior that could dump it's hate (which actually was useful at times in pt play). I did manage to do decent dmg when all out geared for it... but no one would give me buffs. But yeah it was basically a sub par DD which means unused so had so solo and durdle things to death. My current ls is weird. It's a pet ls so almost everyone either has a pet job, support for those pets, pld or whm. That said most of us have mages as well and since jug are often suboptimal especially for the ones not really well geared we almost as often use mage/smn strategies. Though since not all do it leads to some interesting things like AoEing stuff with mages and pets... which sorta works. It also probably doesn't help that our best geared bsts are also our best geared plds lol. Or that we have so few cors/geos

[Cyleena]

Also depends on content... I don't think anything but mages was ever popular for vagary here other than having sams for skillchaining. But for other stuff before bsts it was generally either mages or rngs for safer content (though rngs have really lost popularity since the enmity update) and sam, blu and/or thf for melee dmg blu especially when mixed dmg, terror and/or requiescat was good. But yeah of the shouts I could read last night 1 was for lol 18 man vagary which was looking for blm, bst, brd, pld, whm, sch, brd, cor, geo and pld. Then there was like 3 SR shouts all of them asking for whm, geo, blm and sch (that can skillchain). Speaking of server shout differences just how common are shouts for higher up escha because we don't see hardly any over here at least English ones during NA/JP time (I'm rarely on during EU time)

Part of that was it was basically just a bad axe warrior that could dump it's hate (which actually was useful at times in pt play). I did manage to do decent dmg when all out geared for it... but no one would give me buffs. But yeah it was basically a sub par DD which means unused so had so solo and durdle things to death. My current ls is weird. It's a pet ls so almost everyone either has a pet job, support for those pets, pld or whm. That said most of us have mages as well and since jug are often suboptimal especially for the ones not really well geared we almost as often use mage/smn strategies. Though since not all do it leads to some interesting things like AoEing stuff with mages and pets... which sorta works. It also probably doesn't help that our best geared bsts are also our best geared plds lol. Or that we have so few cors/geos

Totally agree about the content affecting things. Vagary was built with mages in mind. With most those mobs DD dmg is not good, and unless you want to pop T4/T5 dd is not really needed. When skirmish first came out it was mostly mages for ele in Yorcia then they changed it up and made it so need a mixture. Rng was used for lots of stuff including DM2, Delve, etc but now they kinda got put on the back burner as well.

The shouts on Asura are hard to predict. Today we seeing lots of VW shouts. (Pil and Kaggen), Marjami Delve, and only one Escha T2 atm. We do have a lot of SR shouts normally along with Escha but some days are slower then others on shouts, and it varies greatly from day to day what the shouts will be. The other day people were shouting for bsts only in skirmish, which I heard a lot of complaints about from others.

We have had in the past 18 man delve pet burn shouts (one or two months ago). Not sure how well it did but he shouted for several days to do this, and I think he did it for Vagary too.

Asura shouts for SR almost always ask for bst here, and rarely do you see a shout for anything other then pld, geo, whm, cor, and bst.

[Ulth]

Vagary was built with mages in mind.

Yeah that really sucks. I wish they would just remove the clear requirement for reforging empy +1 because of this.