Nerf Beastmaster

[Ulth]

For a start off at no point did I say TH was any justification for nerfing THF, the obvious reason was that cranking out 30-50k Rudra's back to back for even bigger darkness skillchains kinda put every other DD out of business! The point about TH is that it still pretty much ensures THF has a place in most endgame stuff, superstition or not the people I roll with would rather see TH10+ on an NM than not! So THF is only the 3rd or 4th best DD rather than top dog... its still good enough to contribute to practically anything if the rest of your group is competent.

I cared enough about THF to make a 119 Mandau, so whinging to me about how badly done by you are isn't gonna' fly son Seems to me your problem is with the people you roll with, and nerfing BST isn't going to fix that particular problem!

In a nutshell, trusts have effectively made BST's original niche redundant, so it actually needs its new role as high-tier DD. Unlike THF which will always have its fallback role as loot-king, BST has nowhere to go.

No that is pretty much what you just said. THF doesn't need to be a high-tier DD, because of treasure hunter. Unlike bst who should be one because anyone can solo normal mobs now. And yeah, if thf was doing 30-50k Rudra's it would have needed nerfed but it wasn't. Average was more like low mid twenties. Of course if you were using something like Mandau it would me more like high teens.

My problem isn't what ever lame strategy people are using for easy clears today. I didn't go rng for AAs and Marjami, and I didn't go mnk for Tojil. My problem is the things you are saying are wrong. Then people hear it and they think it's true.

Yeah plus if pet mab sets on taeon are so easy you could instead just put regular mab augments on it and do this....



on a job I haven't actually brought to an event since soa came out btw and minimal support. Also technically rng isn't a melee but same difference bst or war can do just as good with cloudsplitter. Cor with leaden. Sam can spam ws much faster than anything. smn can do 99999 flaming crushes a couple of times a minute. Thf can still hit a good 50-60k on dmg neutral mobs if pimped enough. Nin can ws almost as fast as a sam. drk probably in a bad spot though

I'm tired of hearing nonsense like this on the official forums. Stop spreading misinformation. This! This is my problem.

I play THF regularly in current events and since I'm a nice guy, I'll give you a pro tip. That GEO that casts all those cool buffs for those meany weany BSTs that won't let you play with them can also cast luopans and indis that greatly reduce damage from the NM. So can your bard. You can do every single event currently without a single pet job in your group. It just requires using your brain and planning accordingly. You are going to find that out the hard way when they stop letting BSTs carry you next month.

And stop it. You don't know me, and if you actually read anything I have said about bst you would know better. My solution for the problem with bst is adding gear to make the benefits of fighting along side the pet out weigh using charmer's merlin.

Gear is a problem for the pet jobs where the master engages in combat. The problem is, like bazooka said, they make the owner choose between gearing the pet or gearing themselves. One set they need to add is a heavy armor set where the master gets accuracy, attack, double attack, and store tp, while the pet gets damage taken, accuracy, and HP. That way beastmaster can have pet tanking armor while still attacking, and dragoon can have a DD set where its wyvern doesn't get one shot. Fix two problems right there. A master mab, and pet mab set wouldn't hurt either. Giving beastmaster more mab would help make fencer more useful for weaponskills like primal rend, and cloud splitter. Speaking of fencer, some 119 shields wouldn't hurt.

You need some carrots to go with your stick. It's not enough to penalize beastmaster for not engaging with its pet. You also have to incentivize that play style. In the original Japanese response that trigger this thread it was mentioned that the 10 second ready timer was fine because by using charmer's merlin the player gives up all the damage that the master would do. Which to players is a pretty no brainer trade off. The master does not do enough damage to not have the pet use a tp move 50% faster. Especially when the master standing out of aoe range is safer. Lowering the range ready can be used make it a little less safe, but only changes one half of the problem.

I mean I imagine you have read that before as it was in response to something you said, and you even responded to it. Why are you treating me like I'm Draylo?

[Inx]

Damn Ulth, there's so much wrongness in your post I really don't know where to begin.

First of all, THF is still a top-tier DD if geared correctly and buffed appropriately.

Secondly the numbers you cite regarding THF ws-damage are possible right now, post nerf. We have a lot of THF's in our shell and they all can put up those numbers.

You qualify a lot by saying "average" ws damage (as in counting non-stacked WS), but do you do the same when accounting for ready moves? There's a huge difference between readies delivered under familiar, spur, unleash and/or run wild over spammed ones you know. Not to mention Cor rolls and the benefits of fighting under an Idris GEO's bubble that also make a massive difference.

Its not misinformation to show how massively hq support and gear can increase performance for ANY job. This is what really sucks about nerfing generally - it doesn't help people who are struggling to get stuff done, it merely annoys and inconveniences those who were excelling already.

We may never use BST again, but that doesn't take away from the fact we've killed everything in both Escha zones multiple times at this point! So it may take us longer to kill with a different setup, we're still going to own it, the only difference is we have even less impetus and motivation to do so again.

That might sound like bragging, but having ground out 1200 JP's, spent millions of gil perfecting the augments on multiple gear-sets, I feel like I EARNED my role in that success.

So having to re-factor everything because of jealous babies who are gaining nothing for themselves by pulling other people down, is just a pointless thumb-in-the-eye...
Its offensive, and does nothing but give the sense that the dev-team has no respect and no understanding for their players' time and effort.

[Ulth]

When I say average I'm not talking about unstacked ws along with stacked ws. I'm talking about the deviation written into the formula for physical damage as well as the damage done by double and triple attack procs. And when I do my calculations for max damage I assume capped attack, capped accuracy, capped delta strength, as well as boost dex, and additional dex from brd empy. As well as the very best gear, gifts, and most important Mythic dagger and am3. And when I say best gear I mean it. I'm including +1 119 abjurations with their augments and the set bonus. I still get nowhere near where Dasva is claiming. I'm getting just under 40k at 3000tp. With the old ftp rudra's I get 57k. Are you doing your calculations with the old ftp?

On an unrelated note how little the difference between taming sari and vajra is sickens me.

[bazookatooth]

It's like you didn't even read my post ;;

In case you didn't actually read it and needed a TL;DR it's high TH is useless. It's a pointless number to make superstitious people feel better.

As for end game content, nobody does Incursion anymore, cash drops in Vagary are guaranteed, and only the hard thing to get is the platemail. Assuming it isn't like the defending ring and treasure hunter affects it, the insignificant amount that it would is pretty much negated by the chance of the thf dying and losing the NM opposed to a rng who can bounty shot from a safe distance. I honestly don't know about Escha though. Like I said hard to tell what drops are guaranteed and just sharing slots.

I also think it's funny that you pick thf over bst for thf's excellent survivability.

Anyway I'm not here to debate thf's dps vs other jobs. I'm here because of the garbage you are spouting about treasure hunter being a justification for nerfing thf. Bottom line, it's not. It's not a thf only ability. And it's also not a fun way to play the game. Being only invited for TH and then not getting to contribute to the fight is not fun. I had enough of that garbage back during Abyssea.

I play THF regularly in current events and since I'm a nice guy, I'll give you a pro tip. That GEO that casts all those cool buffs for those meany weany BSTs that won't let you play with them can also cast luopans and indis that greatly reduce damage from the NM. So can your bard. You can do every single event currently without a single pet job in your group. It just requires using your brain and planning accordingly. You are going to find that out the hard way when they stop letting BSTs carry you next month.

[Tidis]

THF survivability is garbage against anything that counts.

[dasva]

THF survivability is garbage against anything that counts.

So is basically any job in range that isn't pld or run. At least without a geo or smn/brd combo

I'm tired of hearing nonsense like this on the official forums. Stop spreading misinformation. This! This is my problem.

It's not misinformation it's math. Note I said can not average as in absolute highest amounts possible

[Ulth]

It's not misinformation it's math

If that's math I think you need to show your work.

[bazookatooth]

If that's math I think you need to show your work.

There are spreadsheets and forums for every job as well as thousands of youtube videos and screen shots on every popular FFXI site just a google search away, but yeah.... you need someone to show you math. You play THF. I play THF. I can put up those numbers and you should be able to too. So my question is: Are you lying about not believing that thief can put up those numbers? or are you bad at THF? I suspect that you know thief puts out good numbers and you're just pissed because you hang out with some people who don't like thief as much as they like BST right now.

[Malthar]

What about nerfing blue mage? It is sooooo overpowered right now! OMG! Why isn't anyone talking about it?

[Tidis]

What about nerfing blue mage? It is sooooo overpowered right now! OMG! Why isn't anyone talking about it?

I think they get away with it because most BLU are garbage and the good BLU stay under the radar.