Dev question regarding August 5th Job Point Gift List - 1200 point gift

[Garota]

C'mon, seriously. There could have been so many better simple things to give us, hell, some new AoE Damage Blood Pacts, perhaps even other Hybrid Physical/Magical Bloodpacts.

What do you need it for?



If anything, I want an AoE Blood Pact: Rage.

But nothing ever came of asking for an AoE Blood Pact...

So I said that I wanted Hybrid Elementals, those would make up for the a useless gift we got instead.

Anyways, I'll play along and add my wishlist for SMN Job Point goodies.

Hybrid Spirit Pacts

This is a paragraph about stuff and junk why this is a good idea, blahblah blah, and because Cait Sith was such a disappointment. Also, the Blood Pact Delay -5 Gift from 100 Job Points was rather underwhelming compared to other jobs.

These Hybrid Spirits will only be castable by Lv99 SMN with the prerequisite of um, something which I have no clue of yet. None of the spirits will have a Favor linked to them, similar to current spirits. They will also have a perpetuation cost comparable to Celestial Avatars. The time required to cast a Hybrid Spirit will be equal to Avatars and not Spirits.

The Hybrid Spirits would behave similarly to the current Elemental Spirits, when engaged, they will cast offensive spells when they have been assaulted on a target or auto-assaulted due to aggro. The spells would be based on their element type and the tiers would scale up to V and they will also cast area of effect spells (-aja). Differing from typical Spirits, when passive, these will cast Enhancing Black and White Magic spells on themselves. Another distinguishing feature compared to typical Spirits, these hybrids will use Blood Pacts based on the actual hybrids' abilities. Hybrid Spirits will not have any Ward based Blood Pacts. Under the effect of Astral Flow, they will not gain additional Blood Pacts.

Baelfyr Spirit
Light/Fire

When passive this spirit will work similarly to the current Light Spirit, due to it's tendency to cast spells randomly such as Protect V and Shell V, Curaga V, Haste II, and MAYBE even Regen V (Although I suppose Regen II should suffice). Those enhancing spells will have priority over the following spells:

Enlight, Enfire, Blaze Spikes, Stoneskin, Blink, Aquaveil

The following offensive spells will be cast at random when assaulted on an enemy target:

Banishga III, Dia III, Banish IV
Burn, Addle, Fire V, Firaga III, Firaja, Flare II

The two following Blood Pact: Rage will be exclusive to the Baelfyr Spirit only:


Blinding Fulgor - 15' Area Light damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Flash
Searing Tempest - 15' Area Fire damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: 25 HP Burn

Byrgen Spirit
Dark/Earth

When passive this spirit will cast the following enhancing spells on itself:

Endrain, Enstone, Dread Spikes, Stoneskin

The following offensive spells will be cast at random when assaulted on an enemy target:

Sleepga II, Bio III, Stun, Dispel, Drain II, Aspir II, all Absorb spells
Rasp, Slow II, Break/Petrify, Stone V, Stonega III, Stoneja, Quake II

The two following Blood Pact: Rage will be exclusive to the Byrgen Spirit only:

Tenebral Crush - 15' Area Dark damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Knockback
Entomb - 15' Area Earth damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Petrify

Gefyrst Spirit
Water/Ice

When passive this spirit will cast the following enhancing spells on itself:

Enwater, Enblizzard, Aquaveil, Ice Spikes

The following offensive spells will be cast at random when assaulted on an enemy target:

Drown, Poison III, Water V, Waterga III, Waterja, Flood II
Frost, Paralyze II, Blizzard V, Blizzaga III, Blizzaja, Freeze II

The two following Blood Pact: Rage will be exclusive to the Gefyrst Spirit only:
'2
Spectral Floe - 15' Area Water damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Terror
Scouring Spate - 15' Area Ice damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Paralyze

Ungeweder Spirit
Wind/Thunder

When passive this spirit will cast the following enhancing spells on itself:

Enaero, Enthunder, Blink, Shock Spikes

The following offensive spells will be cast at random when assaulted on an enemy target:

Silence, Choke, Gravity II, Aero V, Aeroga III, Aeroja, Tornado II
Shock, Stun, Thunder V, Thundaga III, Thundaja, Burst II

The two following Blood Pact: Rage will be exclusive to the Ungeweder Spirit only:

Silent Storm - 15' Area Wind damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Gravity and Silence
Anvil Lightning - 15' Area Thunder damage centered on Spirit. Additional effect: Stun

The names of the the aforementioned abilities and the additional effects are based on observations from playing with Escalents in Yorcia Skirmish II. The enemy Hybrid Elementals in game use their special ability attacks when enough TP has been accumulated, the Hybrid Spirits will however be able to use the abilities through the use of Blood Pact Rage. The amount of damage dealt would be modified by TP and by the Summoner's equipment, for example Pet: MAB+, Blood Pact Damage+, and Avatar: TP Bonus. On the contrary, the duration of the additional effects will be based on Summoning Skill and Pet: Magic Accuracy+ on the Summoner's Equipment.

As previously mentioned, all spells would be cast randomly by the Spirit, summoning skill affect "the spirit's AI and will shorten time between spells casts" just like current spirits. All Blood Pacts will have the same MP cost of... 250? MP, except when under the effect of Apogee. All Blood Pacts will (not?) have skill chain properties.

But then I was told No.

Greetings!

Thanks for all the job point categories and Gifts ideas! I'd like to comment on a couple of them based on information I received from the development team.


Similar to encumbered and other ailments that are difficult to manage, we designed charm and amnesia so that the effect durations are short or you can out right dodge them. With that said, the dev. team has no plans to add spells that would remove these enfeebling effects.


Unfortunately, the development team does not have any plans to implement these kind of spirits for summoner.


These special weapon skills are not available for every type of weapon, so unlocking these for non-campaign use would be unfair to players who do not use these particular weapons. As such we would like to keep these weapon skills as they are currently.

[Helias]

Just got my first Espiritus today and it hasn't effected my BP timer either? Perhaps 30 seconds is the wall for -BPdelay II. Either way this doesn't seem to be just an issue with the job gift.

[AtrixWolfe]

Just got my first Espiritus today and it hasn't effected my BP timer either? Perhaps 30 seconds is the wall for -BPdelay II. Either way this doesn't seem to be just an issue with the job gift.

Right, we've known for quite some time bp delay II caps at 30 seconds. Many hoped when we saw the 1200 point gift that it would lower bp recast delay further, because we wouldn't get 1200 job points for a gift that doesn't give us anything we don't already have right? ... Wording is often tricky with the game like how Geomancy + and Geomancer Skill + can mean VASTLY different things, so SE is usually very careful in labeling things consistently, the wording on the gifts makes one think it would not be the same category as BP delay 1 or BP delay II, but its own thing. Testing showed the 100 Gift behaved this way but, with the new bp delay II gear out as well as this 1200 gift, it really does make no change for SMN as a job at all.

@Ulth I didn't reply before b/c I didn't want the thread to devolve into arguing about other jobs but there's been time to calm down and it's becoming that anyway so I will touch on it:
MNK and DNC can claim to possibly have it worse, as in haste capped situations their 1200 gift actually hurts their TP gain. (Though this could be fixed if SE made a bug fix that lowering delay below delay cap won't effect tp gains since it won't effect the speed at which you swing either). THF I play THF a lot and never seen TH 13 yet, wondering if I'll ever see TH 14. However, no testing has been done on if it is different from other TH levels like TH 1 and 2 and 3 all behave a bit differently so impossible to say on that. A lot of jobs got great things for 1200 gifts, RDM got an 11 tic refresh, SCH got Helix II, PUP got more slots, that is why when someone mentioned earlier though other jobs I stated it's not a valid argument, because it is relative privation (also known as the not as bad as argument) meaning that it changes the topic and compares it to worse trying to persuade you by stating there are worse problems and that thus your argument has no weight. Parents often use it for example when you don't finish your food, stating there are starving kids in other countries so you should finish your food is actually a logical fallacy, just as stating SMN 1200 gift is fine because others have it worse is also a logical fallacy, to make it more obvious so would stating that 1200 gift is fine because there are bigger problems in the world like human trafficking. While it is true a few other jobs have worse 1200 gifts, and while it is true there are bigger problems in the world like human trafficking, neither is a valid argument against should SMN have a 1200 gift that impacts the job because they aren't related to the argument at all and the only reason it becomes a logical fallacy and persuades some ppl is because in the case of your dinner, there is a common thread of food and hunger and in the case of this there is a common thread of game balance and job changes. Logical fallacies are such because they are common mistakes in human thinking. That is why discussion of BST or MNK or THF here isn't fully relevant and more than a bit off topic, there isn't a reason any job should have a 1200 gift that doesn't help the job. Perhaps there is a big gift down the line that will make up for it and SE can't reveal that at this time, or maybe we'll get Siren as a summon, or who knows, but relative privation is a logical fallacy and if you wanna read more about it you can here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallac...tive_privation

[Ponto]

I think SE doesn't realise how much difference is there between SMN and BST who can use their ability in 10 sec without MP cost. Anyway hope SE improve this useless gift and amend that cap bug wich occurred in the previous update.

[Ulth]

It's actually not a fallacy of relative privation. I was not dismissing your statement because there are other jobs that got worst gifts. Your statement was dismissed because the gift actually does do something, unlike the examples I gave, but you said it does nothing which was a false statement. The gift lowers the amount of bloodpact delay gear needed so it frees up inventory for other pieces of gear, which in a game where you need a set for everything is actually not that bad. I was actually tickled pink when I 109'd my empy feet and could put my chaac belt in storage.

By the way thanks for stawmanning my point into a fallacy fallacy. I like how you you do it right after appealing to emotions.

Please upvote the topic guys, it won't guarantee replies from the mods but it definitely helps. I have to admit this is really heartbreaking if smn gets 1200 JP and it basically does nothing for the job.

I wait on bated breath for the next one you accuse me of. Maybe it will anecdotal for talking about my chaac belt. Possibly ad hominem, or tu quoque for pointing out your fallacies? I know, you could skip the whole fallacy defense and report me for being off topic so I get banned! It wouldn't be the first time, so maybe you will get lucky and I will get permanently banned.

[bazookatooth]

I think a reasonable argument would have been "Hey look guys, they're gonna add a million more JP categories / Gifts, so this really isn't a terrible grand prize. It's just a stepping stone on a long journey to something (hopefully) better. SO don't act like it's the end of the world". All that other nonsense about how other jobs have it worse (why would they care?...), or how it allows you to use a different piece of gear (Which does nothing for you in precast anyways) is not really relevant to the conversation. Maybe you care about it, but people grinding 1200 JP on summoner don't. People want a reward at the end of the grind and this is not a good reward.

[Ulth]

I think a reasonable argument would have been "Hey look guys, they're gonna add a million more JP categories / Gifts, so this really isn't a terrible grand prize. It's just a stepping stone on a long journey to something (hopefully) better. SO don't act like it's the end of the world". All that other nonsense about how other jobs have it worse (why would they care?...), or how it allows you to use a different piece of gear (Which does nothing for you in precast anyways) is not really relevant to the conversation. Maybe you care about it, but people grinding 1200 JP on summoner don't. People want a reward at the end of the grind and this is not a good reward.

Or I could you know, point out how ridiculously over powered the gift they are asking for is. What they are asking for is the gifts to not count to the caps of 15 for bloodpact reduction I&II. If that were the case then bloodpact could be reduced 30 from gear, then an additional 10 from the gifts for a blood pact recast time of 20. Sure as of right now there is only enough gear for -14 bloodpact II, but 21 second bloodpacts is still a 42% increase in frequency of bloodpacts from the last update.

I'm sure some people might see smn being able to eventually get down to 20 second bloodpacts is putting them on par with bst's 10 second readys, but don't forget SE is in the process of finding ways to nerf bst.

As for it being worth the grind, have you seen smn's job point categories? Those are worth the grind on their own.

[bazookatooth]

Or I could you know, point out how ridiculously over powered the gift they are asking for is. What they are asking for is the gifts to not count to the caps of 15 for bloodpact reduction I&II. If that were the case then bloodpact could be reduced 30 from gear, then an additional 10 from the gifts for a blood pact recast time of 20. Sure as of right now there is only enough gear for -14 bloodpact II, but 21 second bloodpacts is still a 42% increase in frequency of bloodpacts from the last update.

I'm sure some people might see smn being able to eventually get down to 20 second bloodpacts is putting them on par with bst's 10 second readys, but don't forget SE is in the process of finding ways to nerf bst.

As for it being worth the grind, have you seen smn's job point categories? Those are worth the grind on their own.

There you go again blabbing about how this and that is overpowered. Get over it. People are leveling up. Grinding JP is the new leveling system. Stop expecting everything to stay the same. It isn't gonna happen. They're probably gonna add another 5 ~ 15 points to every JP category and a million gifts to go with it. 42% is nothing in the grand scheme of things. The sky isn't falling and all your irrelevant comparisons to other jobs don't matter. Stop trolling the forums asking for nerfs on stuff just because you don't play it.

[Ulth]

There you go again blabbing about how this and that is overpowered. Get over it. People are leveling up. Grinding JP is the new leveling system. Stop expecting everything to stay the same. It isn't gonna happen. They're probably gonna add another 5 ~ 15 points to every JP category and a million gifts to go with it. 42% is nothing in the grand scheme of things. The sky isn't falling and all your irrelevant comparisons to other jobs don't matter. Stop trolling the forums asking for nerfs on stuff just because you don't play it.

Hmm, I hate when people accuse me of things that I don't do, and I hate when people use trolling incorrectly. Trolling is basically trying to bait someone into getting mad. Sort of like what you just did with all those provocative personal attacks. I understand why someone would do it in a discussion. If you make the person with the opinion opposite of your own angry and they reply with something stupid it makes your stance look better by comparison. However I'm compelled to ask, is this just a ploy to win an argument, or do you really want to hurt me?

[Minikom]

A good gift to rep our bp timer -5 could be avatar + 2, increase avatar letting us to get 121 non nirvana y 123 to nirvana Ppl