Nukes!!!

[Selindrile]

LOL, so by giving WHM weaponskills, they meant for them to melee. OK then, I guess all jobs were meant to melee, because all jobs have access to weaponskills. It making no swnse for a WHM to melee and WHM historically not being melee are completely different. "You don't have it because you don't need it. " is far from saying jobs never get abilities outside of their core role. So you "rebutted" everything I said my completely misquoting me. Beautiful.

By giving them Auspice, with special effects that only work when meleeing, a relic that only works when you melee, and most of the old videos that showed Whms in exp parties meleeing, it's clear they meant for them to melee at least some of the time, and actually yes, they did intend for all jobs to melee during exp in the early years of the game, that position has since changed, but the argument in this case was about intent.

I didn't misquote you, I literally posted a link to your quote, it's pretty cut and dry. "You don't have it because you don't need it" = "You don't get things you don't need" = "You don't get abilities outside your core role." it has the same meaning, I was just trying to use less pronouns, for clarity.

As a funny side note, the person that first suggested native WHM dual wield a year or so ago just posted in this thread, saying it was sarcasm (as I suspected and stated in an earlier post.)

If anyone cares, yes, I'd like dual-wield on WHM but no, I don't think it would ever happen, and no, I don't think it would make sense. I would like the option to sub something besides NIN or DNC for meleeing, but I know it'll never happen.

Once again, nope, saying that they don't think it'll ever happen isn't the same thing as being sarcastic, they literally said it was something they'd like/want, therefore, not sarcasm.

The only way WHM would be able to get native DW is if all jobs got native DW.

That's literally what I'd hoped for in my initial post, though in my case I'd be happy even if there was an attack speed penalty for "Dual Wield 0" as I'm primarily after the ability to dual wield clubs for spell modifiers, also, I agree with the rest of that post.

[Zeldar]

"Wow, who knew a single comment I made in jest a year ago would start a flame war?" -the part of Catmato's quote that you intentionally left out. saying something in jest =sarcasm. I see you are the type to twist and omit others words to make your point seem more valid.

Auspice is a party buff, though they do give a bonus to the caster himself with afflatus misery up. Are you going to use misery over solace in a party? You may use it solo, but that is an abnormal situation for a whm. Solo you may be better off subbing DNC or NIN anyway.

All mage relics,mythics and empyreans are made better if you melee. That doesn't necessarily mean they meant for us to melee. Nirvana is outclassed by a few other staves if you don't have afterglow up. I asked months ago for SMN to be given non melee means of TP gain, like BLM has. Of course, I was never answered. I don't believe they meant for mages to melee. I believe they didn't put enough thought into how a mages aftermath should work. WHM should gain TP through curing. SMN should gain tp through a blood pact or ability like elemental siphon. The omission of a sensible for a mage to get TP doesn't mean they intended you to use a senseless one.

Melee WHM in any content level 125+ and see how your party reacts. Ask for their honest opinion. See what you get.

[Selindrile]

"Wow, who knew a single comment I made in jest a year ago would start a flame war?" -the part of Catmato's quote that you intentionally left out. saying something in jest =sarcasm. I see you are the type to twist and omit others words to make your point seem more valid.

Auspice is a party buff, though they do give a bonus to the caster himself with afflatus misery up. Are you going to use misery over solace in a party? You may use it solo, but that is an abnormal situation for a whm. Solo you may be better off subbing DNC or NIN anyway.

All mage relics,mythics and empyreans are made better if you melee. That doesn't necessarily mean they meant for us to melee. Nirvana is outclassed by a few other staves if you don't have afterglow up. I asked months ago for SMN to be given non melee means of TP gain, like BLM has. Of course, I was never answered. I don't believe they meant for mages to melee. I believe they didn't put enough thought into how a mages aftermath should work. WHM should gain TP through curing. SMN should gain tp through a blood pact or ability like elemental siphon. The omission of a sensible for a mage to get TP doesn't mean they intended you to use a senseless one.

Melee WHM in any content level 125+ and see how your party reacts. Ask for their honest opinion. See what you get.

Fair enough, I actually did miss the "in jest" part, legitimately, that was in no way a purposeful omission, and it does admittedly mean that it would be sarcastic, but then they go on to say after the fact that it's something they would like, these two things can't both be true, so I will leave it to Catmato to clarify, I may have been wrong there.

Actually, we do often use Misery over Auspice in a party, however it's not for it's benefit to melee, but because of how it effects esuna.
Yes, all the REM are better if you melee, but Mjollnir, when it came out, did literally nothing for you if you didn't melee, and it was Whms ONLY superweapon at that time, that's more than a little bit different from saying "better if you melee".

Also you made a mistake with saying 125+ content, I never melee on Whm, ever, but we had a Whm who did for quite a while, he's quit now, but Priestbilly meleed on Reisenjimma T2s or lower, it made us grin and eyeroll, but it ultimately didn't hurt anything, as those are easy anyway, we actively had to tell him not to melee on some of the harder stuff though lol.

I don't know how many times I can tell you that I agree with you on that part, Whm aren't efficient melees, but that doesn't mean that pretty much every argument for you put forth against them getting DW isn't hilariously inaccurate/silly/off base.

[Catmato]

so I will leave it to Catmato to clarify, I may have been wrong there.

It doesn't matter either way, you're both arguing over semantics. Also, just because I made the initial comment (to support my friend Krysten's thread), doesn't mean I have any greater say in this argument.

but Priestbilly meleed on Reisenjimma T2s or lower,

PB has always been the exception when talking about WHM Melee.

[Selindrile]

PB has always been the exception when talking about WHM Melee.

Oh? I didn't know he had any particular fame on the matter (He was a transfer), I can remember a number of melee Whm enthusiasts on our server, Mathematical (Debatably the most accomplished NA LS on our server.) had several people who would melee Whm on occasion, and I can recall meeting several others who did to varying degrees of success.

[Zeldar]

I call BS on "successful whm melee." I know its bs... you know its bs... why even try to fool anyone? BTW, DD whm in content at your own level or below isnt "success"

[Selindrile]

*shrug* Others would disagree with that, Bones parties back in the day were at least arguably efficient, I've had some alright melee Whms in Delve (around the time Delve2 came out or after) again, for the billionth time, I want dual wield for the stats, I don't care if you put a giant attack speed penalty on it, I don't think Whms meleeing is efficient, or ever the best way to do anything, but on plenty of content it's "fine".

[Zeldar]

I think you should just lobby for better mage shields.

[Catmato]

Oh? I didn't know he had any particular fame on the matter (He was a transfer), I can remember a number of melee Whm enthusiasts on our server, Mathematical (Debatably the most accomplished NA LS on our server.) had several people who would melee Whm on occasion, and I can recall meeting several others who did to varying degrees of success.

He was on Leviathan, and was always sporting his Mjolnir, back when relics meant something.

[Selindrile]

I think you should just lobby for better mage shields.

This would be fine too, admittedly.