Excessive false positives on STF's automatic ban program

[saevel]

Currently there is a rash of bannings happening against players who are not violating the ToS but are somehow being caught up on the STF's automatic banning program. When contacting customer server they refer you to the in game team, when contacting the in game team they say that because it's the Special Task Force, the in game team can't help you and that there is no way to contact the Special Task Force. The most you can is them telling the player to make a feedback post on the Official Web Forum but the Official Web Forum doesn't have a place for that.

When it first started we all thought it was people doing bad things like using Third Party Programs. Now it's become apparent that something is wrong as people who've done nothing but log on and sit in jeuno, have been banned for section 2.1.

Can we get some feedback directly from the STF, not a form message or some vanilla community response, but an actual member having an open conversation between them and the customers. Someone who has the power to implement change or review policy.

For the time being I'm going to deactivate my account as a preemptive way to prevent accidental STF banning and I suggest everyone else to do the same.

[Draylo-]

Agreed, there should be some transparency or you need to tone down your system. At this rate you will ban a large portion of your subs and that leaves a nasty taste in peoples mouth in regards to your product.

[Olor]

Someone is reporting being suspended for multi-boxing and not using anything but windower. So who knows what that could even be or if that person is lying. I don't see how you could be banned for that, how would they even detect something like that? I know people who use different PCs for each character they multi-box and don't see how that is at all against the rules.

Huh, I thought that windower was a 3rd party program...

Was playing on an alt today, ran around all day with GM flag and speed, used noclip several times.
Was perfectly fine.
I always have the Tako map open on my third screen because I use it like ApRadar.
Went to alt tab and click something in chrome, ended up accidentally hitting the map and teleported across the zone.
Banned 20 seconds later.
Not enough samples to say that pos warping will get you an auto ban, but from my experiences, it seems that way to me.

Got banned on first offense early this morning while doing Salvage.
Well deserved ban, for the past 4 years I don't think I turned my speed under 400%.

These don't sound like people getting banned for nothing...

Now I personally think it is silly to ban people for just using windower... but the rules are the rules, so I don't think people should be surprised if they get banned for breaking the rules.

[dasva]

These don't sound like people getting banned for nothing...
.

This isn't an all or nothing. It's possible there can be some justified and some unjustified ones...

[Hoshi]

Huh, I thought that windower was a 3rd party program...

Talks about windower but gives two examples of flee hacking software.

Lets talk about the more recent examples that have cropped up on other forums. One person was banned for fishing for too long while finishing an ebisu +1. Another person was banned and they're not sure why but at their best guess it was from being in the same skirmish run as someone who was flee hacking. If you're going to get STF banned for playing the game for too long or being in a party with a cheater that is concerning. I'm all in favor of banning people blatantly abusing game mechanics but these examples are not those kinds of players.

[Olor]

Lets talk about the more recent examples that have cropped up on other forums. One person was banned for fishing for too long while finishing an ebisu +1.

If it's the same story I read, that guy said he was also using a third party program... not a cheaterly one, but one nonetheless

Like I said, I don't agree with banning for (non cheating) 3rd party programs, but if SE found a way to detect them, and decides to ban people for using them, it's not for nothing, it's for breaking a rule.

Like the rule, dislike the rule, the rule is there. If you break the rule, you are taking a chance.

People will be surprised when this company didn't ban for windower for over a decade and now all of a sudden they are.

Maybe they couldn't detect windower before, and now they can? We don't know. It's been against TOS all along, so again, people should expect that if they get caught they might get banned.

[Bluestar2kx]

Talks about windower but gives two examples of flee hacking software.

Lets talk about the more recent examples that have cropped up on other forums. One person was banned for fishing for too long while finishing an ebisu +1. Another person was banned and they're not sure why but at their best guess it was from being in the same skirmish run as someone who was flee hacking. If you're going to get STF banned for playing the game for too long or being in a party with a cheater that is concerning. I'm all in favor of banning people blatantly abusing game mechanics but these examples are not those kinds of players.

And those examples you gave were common RMt activity methods. It's logical to assume the "automated bot" detected that and determined as such activity and banned the player. Though we don't have wide spread RMT issues anymore, I imagine they're not completely gone, so the script is still in place. Not saying someone should have to stop fishing to avoid being flagged, but if it is indeed flagging people that way, it would be wise to adjust your play patterns to avoid it, until, or if SE does something about it.

And to a serious question, how can someone sit and fish for hours like that anyway? I've done a couple of dyna runs in a row and that just puts me to sleep as it is before I even finish the first one... I couldn't imagine doing fishing for the same length of time and not go crazy. (are we sure they weren't using a fishing bot?)

And whether or not windower was detectable before or not, is irrelevant, 3rd party software is against the rules, so banning for using it is a logical step unless they amend the ToS to allow windower functions, but that's unlikely because it would be abused easily, so long story short, stop using it if you are and are worried about your account.

With that said, if they are indeed banning legitimately playing accounts for the actions of others, or for flagged falsely for RMT activity, then they need to adjust the bot or have someone review the cases. They definitely need better communication and ways to contact STF staff to flag a review and redetermination. This is important for any company.

[Hoshi]

And those examples you gave were common RMt activity methods. It's logical to assume the "automated bot" detected that and determined as such activity and banned the player. Though we don't have wide spread RMT issues anymore, I imagine they're not completely gone, so the script is still in place. Not saying someone should have to stop fishing to avoid being flagged, but if it is indeed flagging people that way, it would be wise to adjust your play patterns to avoid it, until, or if SE does something about it.

The thing about the ebisu quest though is that you're not fishing in the same zone for many hours. This player was moving from zone to zone fishing for many different fish - it really shouldn't have flagged the RMT filter because what kind of fishbot changes zones all the time? I will admit that more than about 5 hours of fishing puts me to sleep and I often tab away from ffxi until the music changes but I find fishing in medium doses to be relaxing. With that being said I can totally understand how someone would play for nearly 3 days straight in the quest for an afterglow. It's very easy to lose track of days when you're very close to a big goal.

[Draylo-]

Man I wish they had a block feature on this site... People will be surprised when this company didn't ban for windower for over a decade and now all of a sudden they are. It's most likely an automated ban system which is what the OP is talking about. If you don't know then why are you posting and wasting our time stating the obvious.

[saevel]

Lets talk about the more recent examples that have cropped up on other forums. One person was banned for fishing for too long while finishing an ebisu +1. Another person was banned and they're not sure why but at their best guess it was from being in the same skirmish run as someone who was flee hacking. If you're going to get STF banned for playing the game for too long or being in a party with a cheater that is concerning. I'm all in favor of banning people blatantly abusing game mechanics but these examples are not those kinds of players.

This is why I've deactivated my subscription. I knew some of those people and they aren't the type to lie about this stuff. They honestly were not using TPP or violating the ToS but somehow got caught into SE's automatic YOUR-BANNED lottery. I'm honestly beginning to think it's a random lottery, like if the STF doesn't make their monthly metrics for required banned accounts they just randomly add some NA accounts onto the pile to meet quota. Wouldn't surprise me considering job performance is often tied to such reportable metrics. In any case the STF should NOT be handling this unless they have a customer facing entity. Both the customer support and In Game team (GM) have customer facing elements, though Customer Support should be able to conference in a GM during a support call to prevent the catch-22 of needing to contact the in game team while being suspended.

The STF needs a customer representative to talk with players and offer some insight along with a process for reinstatement if the suspension was possibly in error. They are human, they make mistakes like everyone else but right now nobody is fixing or dealing with those mistakes.