Utilizing Myrkr for Magic Blood pacts.

[Cett]

It seems to me that many people who promote the use of Hvergelmir are melee-Smn advocates. There is nothing wrong with that, I'm not here to condemn the few of you who enjoy what you do. However, I've thought just how we as a whole can make use as Myrkr and optimize what it is our pets can do. So here is my case:

Atma choices : Atma of the Beyond(Or Hell's Guardian), Atma of the Ultimate, Atma of the Sea Daughter.

Avatar Choice: Shiva
Reason: Heavenly Strike.

As many of us know Myrkr restores mp linearly with respect to your Tp and current max MP.

Atma of the Sea Daughter applies 5 tp per tic to yourself and your pet (yay).
to get a minimum of 100 tp that's 20 tic's. Where as Minikin Monstrosity gives yourself 10 mp per tic; in 20 tics you gain 200 mp. As long as you can beat 200 mp with Myrkr, you beat the refresh.

I personally would restore roughly 450 mp per ws, or nearly 23 mp/tic worth of mp.

So I've justified the benfit of the TP regain effect over the Refresh effect from these two atma's. I have yet to proven the benefit of the Regain effect on the avatar over the 50 INT provided by them respectively. However he is a start :

Any avatar with 5/5 merits in their respective Blood pact has a base of 160 TP for that bloodpact. This leaves 140 tp to gain between blood pact delay's (Let's assume 45 seconds between BP:rage's).

Caller's Pendant along with Sea Daughter do a nice job at 7.5 TP / tic. 15 Tics exist in that 45 second window allowing for 112.5 tp to be gained. We're pretty much at 300 now! Toss in Caller Spats +1 or 2 and you have the rest of this problem solved.

So we're debating 50 INT vs 300% TP at a rate of 1 Blood Pact every 45 seconds. You can decide what you'd prefer here, this matches my play style well though.

The lovely aspect of Myrkr is, you don't need to be up in and in the monsters face to replenish our mp, simply just engage and pop it.

I'd be willing to live with the slow penalty from Sea Daughter for the benefits in my speculation here. Any thoughts Summoner community?

[Orenwald]

I never thought about it that way... however there is a problem with your math.
it should be INT50 TP160+whatever you pet can get from meleeing in 45 seconds vs 300TP.

The 50INT should add about 75 damage if we assume your pet's MAB is equal to the mob's MDB (makes math less of a headache). in 45 seconds your avatar will swing about 8 times. We'll say 7 will hit on average, because nothing it perfect, that's 58 TP

so INT50 TP218 vs TP300. . .
once again: we'll assume MAB=MDB. We'll also assume dINT is also 0 at base, to see the biggest effect of INT.

MM:[(512+1.72*219) +(50*1.5) ]= 963
SD:[(512+1.72*301)+0]=1029

if we set dINT at something more reasonable, like 30...
MM;[(512+1.72*219)+(80*1.5)]=1009
SD:[(512+1.72*301)+(30*1.5)]=1074

MM will always only add 75 damage to the base, and the difference in the base damage due to TP in this case is always going to be above 75. in fact, if you hit all 8 hits you'll swing in the 45 second window you'll still do less at base.

So the answer is simple: with Myrkr to cover the MP loss, Sea Daughter is actually better for you than Minikin Monstrosity!

...

Nice find yo :O

[Evilvivi]

I dont feel like going through all the trouble of pointing out what is so wrong in this whole thread...but i'll just point out a litte fact on tp. If you are 5/5 on a merit BP thats 160% automatically. Then Emp +1 pants give 25% tp bonus. So we are at 185% tp. Now add in the 2.5 tp/tic from Caller's Pendant, within 45 seconds, you have added 112.5% tp, which brings us at 297% tp. Now, Given that your avatar should at least land one hit in that time and regain is still ticking while avatar charges fore BP, Sea Daughter is just a massive drag net.

[Cett]

I dont feel like going through all the trouble of pointing out what is so wrong in this whole thread...but i'll just point out a litte fact on tp. If you are 5/5 on a merit BP thats 160% automatically. Then Emp +1 pants give 25% tp bonus. So we are at 185% tp. Now add in the 2.5 tp/tic from Caller's Pendant, within 45 seconds, you have added 112.5% tp, which brings us at 297% tp. Now, Given that your avatar should at least land one hit in that time and regain is still ticking while avatar charges fore BP, Sea Daughter is just a massive drag net.

Why are you assuming I let my pet melee the enemy? Unnecessary TP depending on which NM or mob it might be. 160% (Merits5/5) + 50% (+2 Caller's Spats) and 112.5% tp (overkill sure). However that leaves room for more customization, perhaps one only has 4/5 for a given avatar.

Point is we needed to justify using Sea Daughter for the regain, to do so the regain has to be more practical than the Refresh on Minikin, as well as the 50 INT. Which has been done, But in order for the 112% tp / 45 seconds to build you need Caller's Pendant + Sea Daughter, else with +2 Spats and simply Sea daughter you'll be fine :P

[Orenwald]

I dont feel like going through all the trouble of pointing out what is so wrong in this whole thread...but i'll just point out a litte fact on tp. If you are 5/5 on a merit BP thats 160% automatically. Then Emp +1 pants give 25% tp bonus. So we are at 185% tp. Now add in the 2.5 tp/tic from Caller's Pendant, within 45 seconds, you have added 112.5% tp, which brings us at 297% tp. Now, Given that your avatar should at least land one hit in that time and regain is still ticking while avatar charges fore BP, Sea Daughter is just a massive drag net.

Am I the only one who noticed that he did 2.5 x 45 instead of 2.5 x 15 (45 seconds is 15 tics not 45 tics)

This being said I totally forgot to tally that in... and after I do tally that 37.5 TP in... sea daughter still wins by about 10 base damage, ASSUMING you let your pet melee with MM on.

So once again, SD > MM for a myrkr SMN.

Nice Find

[Evilvivi]

Am I the only one who noticed that he did 2.5 x 45 instead of 2.5 x 15 (45 seconds is 15 tics not 45 tics)

This being said I totally forgot to tally that in... and after I do tally that 37.5 TP in... sea daughter still wins by about 10 base damage, ASSUMING you let your pet melee with MM on.

So once again, SD > MM for a myrkr SMN.

Nice Find

LOL! I was wondering if somebody would notice that mistake I made, I was tired when I posted it, but couldnt be bothered to go back and edit since nobody realized...

[Dallas]

Anyone using this build is actually negative on the physical avatar melee hits (5% slow, I believe from Sea Daughter). If you aren't meleeing, and aren't doing anything but magic pacts, do you need Myrkr? You can get to 7 refresh in items alone, as I recall, and then sub RDM.

Drop sea daughter, and add the -10 BP timer instead.

[Malamasala]

But -BP is capped for everyone (unless someone gets around to prove the atma works past the limit... something I never get anyone to prove... just keep spreading the rumor that "they heard it does this and this")

[Dallas]

But -BP is capped for everyone (unless someone gets around to prove the atma works past the limit... something I never get anyone to prove... just keep spreading the rumor that "they heard it does this and this")

The Atma does go past the limit, to 35 seconds cap. It's a 28% improvement, if you do nothing else but BP. That's a pretty low starting point though.

As for proof, I think 4 months elapsing without anyone contradicting the claim is good enough for me.

[Cett]

The Atma does go past the limit, to 35 seconds cap. It's a 28% improvement, if you do nothing else but BP. That's a pretty low starting point though.

As for proof, I think 4 months elapsing without anyone contradicting the claim is good enough for me.

Just because you never saw a contradiction, doesn't mean it works. Blood pact is locked at a -15 second delay.
Atma's don't break caps, Haste is a good example... If i have 25% haste and I apply Omega's Atma which gives 10% haste I don't get 35%.

I don't quote or cite wiki, though even you should be able to see there is no exception mentioned on the blood pact page regarding this limit.