Beastmasters being undersold

[Kensagaku]

Shouldn't have to keep Heeling, or spamming Fight to get it to hit the mob you want. Last I checked every other pet on this game doesn't change random targets.

AoEs are more likely to kill the other pets rather than make it switch target and they have less methods of restoring pet HP, so would you like to gimp our pet's HP down to put it on par with the others, or lower our pet food to a straight-up regen like auto oils?

It's also really easy to switch mobs, and if your pet has hate on multiple mobs it means you either made a mistake in linking or you made a mistake in aggroing and had to save yourself. Both are cases of player error. If it's a stray AoE you should only have to heel/fight once. If it keeps happening? MOVE AWAY. Isn't that kinda common sense for avoiding AoEs?

[Yopop]

There are always people out there who edit posts in their head and miss the subject.

Stray AoE can actually cause a pet to consistently turn to attack the casting mob. This can cause the target mob to go unclaimed and people will take that chance to steal that claim. By using heel you risk the chance of again losing claim. Spamming Fight on the intended target is about all you can do. You an get AoE from mobs from other parties and aliances still which sucks for any pet jobs.

It's not player error if they get aggro it's the perk of having a pet. BST was intended to be a solo job it was designed for it and should maintain that ideal.

I believe when you get more experience under your belt as a lot of the bsts who are posting ideals on the subject you'll understand the frustration of pets. Do not take this personal but after 7 years of tweaks being done to every job and the same problems still happening to BST it gets old after awhile.

AoE from a mob that is claimed by another alliance isn't a player error by the way. They patched that a few years back so that you couldn't mpk by there are still mobs whose AoE can affect players and pets. Isn't that kinda common sense that outside AoE shouldn't affect a players hate?

AoEs are more likely to kill the other pets rather than make it switch target and they have less methods of restoring pet HP, so would you like to gimp our pet's HP down to put it on par with the others, or lower our pet food to a straight-up regen like auto oils?

It's also really easy to switch mobs, and if your pet has hate on multiple mobs it means you either made a mistake in linking or you made a mistake in aggroing and had to save yourself. Both are cases of player error. If it's a stray AoE you should only have to heel/fight once. If it keeps happening? MOVE AWAY. Isn't that kinda common sense for avoiding AoEs?

[Kensagaku]

There are always people out there who edit posts in their head and miss the subject.

Stray AoE can actually cause a pet to consistently turn to attack the casting mob. This can cause the target mob to go unclaimed and people will take that chance to steal that claim. By using heel you risk the chance of again losing claim. Spamming Fight on the intended target is about all you can do. You an get AoE from mobs from other parties and aliances still which sucks for any pet jobs.

It's not player error if they get aggro it's the perk of having a pet. BST was intended to be a solo job it was designed for it and should maintain that ideal.

I believe when you get more experience under your belt as a lot of the bsts who are posting ideals on the subject you'll understand the frustration of pets. Do not take this personal but after 7 years of tweaks being done to every job and the same problems still happening to BST it gets old after awhile.

AoE from a mob that is claimed by another alliance isn't a player error by the way. They patched that a few years back so that you couldn't mpk by there are still mobs whose AoE can affect players and pets. Isn't that kinda common sense that outside AoE shouldn't affect a players hate?

"When I get more experience"...? I've been a BST for about a year now, and I've soloed plenty. Also, read my post, I never said AoE from another party's alliance was player error... but really, it is. If you have a problem with AoEs? Move. Not really that hard to get away from the mob.

It's not player error if they get aggro it's the perk of having a pet. BST was intended to be a solo job it was designed for it and should maintain that ideal.

How... how is it a perk of having a pet if you get aggro? It's a mistake on your part which causes the monster to attack you, which requires you to switch your pet's target and in turn make it draw hate, at which point it can swap between two targets because you couldn't be bothered to avoid aggro in the first place. It is an error. The perk is saving yourself from the aggro, but at the cost of dealing with your pet's hate list issues.

I'm not saying that I like the pet switching targets. But I'm saying that it's also very easily avoidable if you're careful and don't make little mistakes. Aggroing is a mistake when you're trying to focus on a target. Linking is a mistake when you're trying to focus on a target. Not knowing to move away from AoEs is a mistake when you don't want your pet to go wandering off. And I'm not saying I don't do any of these too; in fact, it's because I make these mistakes that I learn from them, and avoid making them as often as possible to avoid the issue of a battle that could go horribly wrong if my pet's attention gets diverted.

[Xilk]

@Kensagaku
I hate when people say the "more experience" thing... but in this case, really its ringing true.

It's also really easy to switch mobs, and if your pet has hate on multiple mobs it means you either made a mistake in linking or you made a mistake in aggroing and had to save yourself. Both are cases of player error. If it's a stray AoE you should only have to heel/fight once. If it keeps happening? MOVE AWAY. Isn't that kinda common sense for avoiding AoEs?

You don't understand that there is really glitchy behavior going on here. The problem happens that you get hate on mobs for NO REASON AT ALL. Its not about getting a hit or 2.. because, when its an NM that "hit or 2" means death, loss of claim, loss of trigger set that took some work getting. Its not about fighting, its about having NM claims stolen.

Its not about you getting hate on another mob, its about another mob getting hate on your pet. you don't seem to understand what is going on here.

[Kensagaku]

You don't understand that there is really glitchy behavior going on here. The problem happens that you get hate on mobs for NO REASON AT ALL. Its not about getting a hit or 2.. because, when its an NM that "hit or 2" means death, loss of claim, loss of trigger set that took some work getting. Its not about fighting, its about having NM claims stolen.

Its not about you getting hate on another mob, its about another mob getting hate on your pet. you don't seem to understand what is going on here.

Give me a scenario then. Because I'm only seeing three instances where your pet could get hate from a mob it wasn't already fighting:

1) Your pet was fighting a mob, and another mob linked with first mob. Said new mob attacks your pet, and because of how the enmity system works, your pet could switch targets if this new mob does more overall damage, etc. This is player error because you didn't move your pet away from potential links.

2) Your pet was fighting a mob, you got aggro, and you used your pet to get aggro off of you before switching back to the original mob. Again, the enmity situation, and your pet could change targets. This is still player error for not avoiding aggro.

3) The rare cases where mobs aggro pets. I don't remember specifically but I've seen one or two instances where there are mobs that will actually aggro your pet. I think one of them was an Assault mission, I can't remember very well.

Look, I won't deny that maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation you're coming from here. It's possible that you and I are on completely separate trains of thought. But until you explain it more coherently and in a clear fashion, say, give me a scenario so that I may see where the misunderstanding may be, I'm going to say that the whole hate situation is reasonable provided you pay attention to reduce your own error as much as possible. Not saying people are perfect - I know I've done every one of these situations and died for the first two at least a few times - but you can still actively work to improve.

[Gotterdammerung]

Give me a scenario then. Because I'm only seeing three instances where your pet could get hate from a mob it wasn't already fighting:

1) Your pet was fighting a mob, and another mob linked with first mob. Said new mob attacks your pet, and because of how the enmity system works, your pet could switch targets if this new mob does more overall damage, etc. This is player error because you didn't move your pet away from potential links.

2) Your pet was fighting a mob, you got aggro, and you used your pet to get aggro off of you before switching back to the original mob. Again, the enmity situation, and your pet could change targets. This is still player error for not avoiding aggro.

3) The rare cases where mobs aggro pets. I don't remember specifically but I've seen one or two instances where there are mobs that will actually aggro your pet. I think one of them was an Assault mission, I can't remember very well.

Look, I won't deny that maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation you're coming from here. It's possible that you and I are on completely separate trains of thought. But until you explain it more coherently and in a clear fashion, say, give me a scenario so that I may see where the misunderstanding may be, I'm going to say that the whole hate situation is reasonable provided you pay attention to reduce your own error as much as possible. Not saying people are perfect - I know I've done every one of these situations and died for the first two at least a few times - but you can still actively work to improve.

in response to #1
Links are not always avoidable with skill. Here is a scenario for you. You are camping heqet. It spawns dead in the middle of 5 frogs. Your options as a skilled player are A). wait for it to move away from the frogs resulting in a good chance someone else gets the claim. B). claim it now and link the world.
Once you claim there is a high risk that your pet will randomly bounce back n forth between frogs and heqet leaving u vulnerable for NM theft. Its a design flaw. Your saying its not. But your wrong. Yes, there are things you can do to limit your risk, but ultimately it is an unfair burden and needs to be addressed.

Tips to handle this situation:
1-You claim the heqet instead of your pet. Very quickly use fight to put pet on heqet. Then kite the frogs til they depop while ur pet fights heqet. Damage immunity and flee temp items can help this angle work.
2- claim with jug pet. Use leave. Use call beast. This will undue the links.
Things to watch out for with this angle-
make sure heqet will not pick up any NEW links in his path to u after "leave"


in response to #2 Getting agro is a player mistake sure i agree with you. But it comes with its own penatly that EVERYONE has to suffer. The penalty is FIGHTING 2 MONSTERS AT ONCE. Having your NM stolen doesnt need to be part of it. And again in some situations agro is unavoidable. For instance, Lets say you are hunting Chione in abyssea uleg.
You successfully get the pop but you are in a bad spot in the murex camp during the night. You have 2 options. Use fight to put pet on chione and agro a few murex's. Or try to kite Chione outside the murex range and hope she doesnt kill you otw. This is all to avoid the risk of having chione stolen.

If it was possible to choose wich NM you want your pet to fight, it would suddenly become fair again. And in situations like these you could play on even terms with other players. You could just tell ur pet fight Heqet ignore the other frogs and suddenly no risk to lost claim. You could have your pet do a sheep song to stop the Murex agro and tell ur pet to fight chione exclusivly and not worry about having ur chione stolen.


There is a 3rd and 4th situation where this type of thing becomes a problem.

3- Some NMs have AoE moves that hit outside alliance. When these hit your pet it will run off after it. This puts the target ur fighting at risk of being stolen. Yes it can usually be avoided by not standing near people. But sometimes that is not an option. And on top of that it can be abused by players. I have personally witnessed normal job shells using outside alliance AoE mobs to steal a Bennu from a bstmaster. He was fighting out of the way and they just brought it to wherever he was fighting.

4- random glitches. I have witnessed this happen around 4 times in my entire bst career so not a huge problem but
Occasionally your pet targets a monster without provocation. I mean you never told it to atk the monster. And the monster never agroed it or hit it or did anything to it. I usually laugh off these moments with funny comments like "hmm he must of been hungry i guess." But if this glitch were to cause me to die or lose claim on a NM i wouldnt be laughing.


There is also situations where this clumsy "you dont get to choose where ur claim goes because ur pets got the AI of a retarded monkey" can be inhibiting or even dangerous. It isnt always about issues of claim or nm theft. Sometimes its just dangerous for ur pet to /ignore your orders. Hell there not really even orders at this point its more like u suggest things to ur pet and hope it listens. Anyway heres an example.

Setting - Dynamis
Scenario 1 issue 4
Your nazuna gets bored and for no reason runs off into the sunset. You use heel but she doesnt seem interested in you. A few minutes later, an ARMY of enemies comes running back on her heels.

Setting- dynamis
Scenario 2
After a large pull your group has successfully slept everything. Then after a time a Bst pet enemy wakes up and casts an AGA. Your casts sleep on him. But nazuna is pissed for getting attacked. She says "Sleeps to good for this guy CHOMP!"
Now the pet is awake and decides to breakga the group. Well your inability to specifically command your pet has now become a liability hasnt it?


In closing, While player skill can go a long way towards dealing with this issue, It is still an Issue and needs to be fixed. Even highly skilled players lose hard earned opportunities for no reason due to this problem.

[Kensagaku]

Now see, these are very reasonable scenarios, and good examples. I can work with these.

#1 - Anyone who fights the NM has the same issue. You claim Hejet and it mad-links. With most jobs you can just outrun it and deaggro the frogs, but at the distance you'll end up making from Hejet due to its casting it will likely go yellow while chasing after you, making for easy steals. However, you're right in that how easily claim is lost to a BST pet, and it is annoying. It would be nice if we had better control, I never once disagreed with that, but at the same time in most situations it's easily remedied.

#2 - The example you described with Chione is partially your own fault. :s If you popped it around the murexes with no way to hold it (most jobs would have to use Provoke, etc anyway so they'd be on level ground with you) then that's more a SoL situation. However, as I said, it's not too hard to keep your pet's hate on the NM, since they generally tend to focus on whoever's doing more damage at the time. In the case of aggro/link generally you can let your pet focus on the NM due to greater damage and go kill the add on your own, using snarl to keep hate off of you while you tear it down and keeping your pet's HP up with Reward. Of course, this won't apply in all situations such as particularly hard-hitting mobs.

#3 - Unfortunately this ends up being a situation of MPK, and players are idiots. My condolences to you, I have been fortunate enough not to deal with such childish folks. GM them and move on, and try again another time. =(

In the non-MPK incidents though, my suggestion is to have a quick claim tool yourself. If you're /NIN, toss a Hyoton: Ni (Tsurara are cheap/pathetically easy to make), if you're /DNC use Animated Flourish. /WHM or /RDM can use Dia, /WAR can use provoke. That way you can get claim back on your NM fast while getting your pet back on track. This is a bit annoying as well, I won't deny, but unless it's an effort at an MPK, you can just move away.

#4 - I don't have an explanation for this. xD Gotta love random glitches?

As for Dynamis... I honestly haven't used BST in a Dynamis-type setting, so I cannot say I really have seen that or have a solution for that. If that is the case, then yes, at very least the whole Heel being ignored needs to be fixed. Overall, I think a lot of the issues are easily solved by a player thinking quickly and reacting appropriately, like with any other job, but there are a few things to be tweaked. I'm not in total disagreement with you, and you've made some certainly valid points, I just feel that some of it is working as intended and players need to work on avoiding said scenarios if possible.