Job Adjustments in March 2015 Update

[Crevox]

You really believe that this is the only thing out of balance?

No. Did I ever say that? No, I didn't. But hey, I'm glad they're nerfing the biggest outlier.

When People for Delve have to stun-lock crap because just 1 TP move, just 1 can end a run?

Some people do this, sure, but it is by no means required.

The only boss this is done on is Tojil, by the way, and that is because of Incinerating Lahar which inflicts Weakness. You can survive this without stunning it, however for pug groups, preventing it from happening is the safest strategy.

Remember when I said that people who don't even do Delve or understand it are trying to suggest balance changes? I think that's you right now.

Or that EVERYTHING 'requires' a BRD or it can't be done.

BRD is an extremely powerful support, and the community acknowledges this. In all reality, haste is just such a powerful buff, that capping haste from buff sources (magic haste) is extremely useful, on top of the MP refresh it provides to the healer with ballads, enfeebles, extra healing/erases, etc. The main reason BRD is brought to anything is because of March and Lullaby, but everything else BRD does is also fantastic.

Could you go without a BRD? Sure, but it would be a bad idea in many cases, because you'd be missing out on all that extra haste. GEO works instead of BRD now too, though, people are just slow to catch on and people have a hard time learning how to play GEO for some reason.

We have a 'Magical Tank,' but still won't get invited instead of PLD.

Why do you keep blaming the game for what is the community's fault? RUN can tank everything in the game except the most difficult content. However, VERY few people play RUN, and when they do, they often do a very bad job at it. It's a much harder job to play than Paladin. Thus, people don't even bother shouting for RUN, because:

1. It's very unlikely there's even going to be one that wants to join as a RUN
2. If it does want to join, it's probably not geared or doesn't know how to play the job properly
3. It just introduces a huge risk because of the two above points

Besides that, PLD is just often stronger in general; certainly not required to be stronger in most cases, but still.

We had a 'Blink Tank' but that went out the door because EVERYTHING AoEs.

You're correct, NIN could use some buffs in this department, or content needs to be adjusted to stop eating so many shadows. SE has already acknowledged this and implemented a lot of new content (Unity NMs, maybe vagary) where Ninjas could tank much more comfortably. However, again, do you see any Ninjas? Because I don't see anyone playing Ninjas. They can DD pretty well, even better if SE decides to fix Blade: Kamu like they said they were going to recently, it's just that people don't want to play it because it's not OP THF Rudras/people don't like Ninja.

We have SMN, GEO, and COR, but do they get invited, usually not.

COR and GEO are used in tons of content; COR is not used a replacement to BRD due to lack of lullaby and hastes. GEO is extremely powerful, but there is still a lack of people playing it, and a lot of people do quite poorly at it. I've invited many random GEOs, and none of them nuke or enfeeble, and even though I tell them exactly what buffs/debuffs I desire, they have a hard time doing it for some reason.

SMN is getting buffs, but is actually a decent buffing job now. They just have a hefty gear requirement (in addition to a lot of swapping around gear required) and are a bit unorthodox to play with buff/favor juggling, but the buffs we're getting is actually helping that. I just wish some of their weaker buffs would scale up a bit better (Noctoshield, Shining Ruby, etc).

Regardless of all these things, and all that you've stated, Rudra's was still overpowered, and still needed a nerf.

[Zeargi]

Some people do this, sure, but it is by no means required.

The only boss this is done on is Tojil, by the way, and that is because of Incinerating Lahar which inflicts Weakness. You can survive this without stunning it, however for pug groups, preventing it from happening is the safest strategy.

Remember when I said that people who don't even do Delve or understand it are trying to suggest balance changes? I think that's you right now.

Could you go without a BRD? Sure, but it would be a bad idea in many cases, because you'd be missing out on all that extra haste.

Why do you keep blaming the game for what is the community's fault? RUN can tank everything in the game except the most difficult content.

Besides that, PLD is just often stronger in general; certainly not required to be stronger in most cases, but still.



You're correct, NIN could use some buffs in this department, or content needs to be adjusted to stop eating so many shadows. SE has already acknowledged this and implemented a lot of new content (Unity NMs, maybe vagary) where Ninjas could tank much more comfortably. However, again, do you see any Ninjas? Because I don't see anyone playing Ninjas. They can DD pretty well, even better if SE decides to fix Blade: Hi like they said they were going to recently


COR and GEO are used in tons of content; COR is not used a replacement to BRD due to lack of lullaby and hastes. GEO is extremely powerful, but there is still a lack of people playing it, and a lot of people do quite poorly at it. I've invited many random GEOs, and none of them nuke or enfeeble, and even though I tell them exactly what buffs/debuffs I desire, they have a hard time doing it for some reason.

SMN is getting buffs, but is actually a decent buffing job now. They just have a hefty gear requirement (in addition to a lot of swapping around gear required) and are a bit unorthodox to play with buff/favor juggling, but the buffs we're getting is actually helping that.

You say I keep blaming the community and that's partly true, but not entirely. Yes, I've done delve. I've done Tojil, Dakuwaqa, and Muyingwa, still haven't won, but that's usually from timing out. I know most of the bosses game mechanics that I can find (Delve 2 Mobs have little info posted for some reason) It's easy to read up on them, but what good is reading going to do when there's nothing you can do to compare to another job? You don't see Ninjas any where? (They're doing their job right then, but jokes aside.) Could it be not because people don't want to play them, but because they CAN'T play them. The general mechanic for a job that designed to avoid damage is Broken as hell, and SE knows this. So why play something that can't be used to it's greatest potential. PUP, it has the equal output as MNK. They CAN deal great Damage, but MNK wins out because it has more HP. COR, it can sleep things, it has Light shot, but can use it twice, but because their dice roll doesn't actually 'haste' they get the shaft most of time. SMN is the Master of Crowd Control when it come to Mobs that Don't share enmity. Even when comes to buffs, the only thing that SMN can't give is decent ACC+. RUN is somewhat difficult, I'll give you that, but players that ACTUALLY play don't get that chance, because as YOU SAID: "except in the most difficult content"... Which is 80% of the end-game they can't handle that. This stupid spell isn't going to do ANYTHING to help these other jobs that need help. and Nerfing Rudra's is going to kill people that want to play DNC. This game as 22 jobs, and more than half of them can't do things from peoples stubbornness, lacking capacity, or from just lack of survivability.

[Crevox]

Except nothing SE posted talked about a nerf for sam...

we have begun to consider balance adjustments for melee jobs, specifically the thief and samurai, in the March version update.

They talked about the dagger changes, yeah, but they simply didn't say what they were doing to SAM yet. They clearly are "considering" doing something, we just don't know what it is yet.

[dasva]

They talked about the dagger changes, yeah, but they simply didn't say what they were doing to SAM yet. They clearly are "considering" doing something, we just don't know what it is yet.

Considering something doesn't mean doing something. Not that long ago they were also considering adjusting 2hd weapons to balance with 1hd and we are seeing how that played out... for all you know ardor is there answer in balancing sam as laughable as that is

[PlumbGame]

I feel the direction SE is going with the rudras nerf wasn't directly because they currently feel rudras is too OP, but given the power behind closing a darkness in the update with ardor will make content designed around people really now just using thiefs only for closing darkness. I can't say for certainty but that seems to be the implications of the community reps response. I think there is many variables not being looked at. Any serious player in this game knows how powerful thief currently is, BUT, they also know that thief isn't raining superior to ALL dds. Along what the community rep pointed out, it usually seems OP given the health pool of certain mobs being obliterated by a rudras making darkness. On content though that is actually relevant that other jobs have more up time, you would see more equalization among a few DDs. The issue now arises because they are balancing content around ardor. Why are they using 1 spell a job gets to balance our DD jobs? It's a poor way to balance. Not only are people still not going to bring a rdm to everything, even if they did, the average player base doesn't have the capacity to coordinate skillchains or should be required (considering the direction of the game) of them to take advantage of ardor on a thief, really resulting in nerf to the job overall, though I don't think that was the original intention. SE seems to want us to bring rdms and wants us to also SC, which would probably keep us at the same level, but again, unrealistic to expect from everyone.

Ardor needs to be adjusted, or skillchain damage needs to be adjusted. The issue isn't rudras itself and created a lot more versatility in end game content which I think might phase thf out. I'm not super worried, especially since it hit me the adjustments could be towards the ftp at 2k+ tp since given the little info we know about ardors, thiefs AAing to 3k tp and closing darkness left and right is probably what is overpowered. If they don't want jobs doing as much SC damage and don't want to nerf SCs because of the nerf that would be to sam, nerf SCs and give sam bigger SC bonuses.

Anyways, please reconsider the nerf to rudras and find other alternatives (which I would personally suggest buffing other DD jobs).

[Crevox]

I agree that balancing the other melee jobs around a spell is kind of silly, and maybe they should reconsider that part, but it still doesn't change the fact that Rudra's Storm did too much damage.

The issue isn't rudras itself and created a lot more versatility in end game content which I think might phase thf out.

There was no "versatility." Everyone started playing THF because Rudra's Storm was overpowered. Now it's getting nerfed. Yay.

(which I would personally suggest buffing other DD jobs).

I would rather not all the content in the game be melted like Rudra's Storm is doing to it right now. Then you're gonna say "but but but Samurai is strong too!" and my response is relax, they said they were adjusting Samurai as well.

Considering something doesn't mean doing something. Not that long ago they were also considering adjusting 2hd weapons to balance with 1hd and we are seeing how that played out... for all you know ardor is there answer in balancing sam as laughable as that is

You're right, and by your logic, they might not even nerf Rudra's. They are "considering" those dagger changes just like they are "considering" SAM changes.

Not that long ago they were also considering adjusting 2hd weapons to balance 1hd

Source? Also, they did buff 2 handed weapons, considering the huge damage augments they get from skirmish.

[PlumbGame]

I agree that balancing the other melee jobs around a spell is kind of silly, and maybe they should reconsider that part, but it still doesn't change the fact that Rudra's Storm did too much damage.



There was no "versatility." Everyone started playing THF because Rudra's Storm was overpowered. Now it's getting nerfed. Yay.



I would rather not all the content in the game be melted like Rudra's Storm is doing to it right now. Then you're gonna say "but but but Samurai is strong too!" and my response is relax, they said they were adjusting Samurai as well.



You're right, and by your logic, they might not even nerf Rudra's. They are "considering" those dagger changes just like they are "considering" SAM changes.



Source? Also, they did buff 2 handed weapons, considering the huge damage augments they get from skirmish.

I think you are quoting multiple people in one response without who you are quoting and it is quite confusing. I don't know if we are playing the same game, but I have never, not once, since the update done anything that was all thiefs (granted I play with people who excel to the self-proclaimed OP rudras on other jobs). I understand the benefits again of it on something like wanted, which was already even pointed out on the communities rep to blowing stuff like that up, but when you do actual end game content where things don't die in 5s whether you are a thief or not, you will see other jobs like blu and dnc and sam etc equally parsing. Again, this is all based solely you aren't playing with bad players, because lets face it, some people obviously play jobs bad. I've watched thiefs who do 30k+ rudras parse under almost all other DDs in the end of a parse, so..... You also seem confused on how fast content is dying as if people weren't already doing content at the same speed before rudras updates. I've seen groups of people for example do delve just as fast before rudras was the in thing, as people were doing it with rudras afterwards.

Also Thanks for telling me what I'm going to say I guess?

[Crevox]

Your walls of text are very hard to read. Can't you space it out a little?

but because they CAN'T play them.

Uhhh, I don't think there's anything stopping people from trying to play Ninjas. Worst thing that could happen is they get turned down from a group invite, but again, that's not SE's fault.

The general mechanic for a job that designed to avoid damage is Broken as hell, and SE knows this.

No, it actually functions quite well on a lot of content, just not everything, and not enough to turn you into a "blink tank" that can sit there and soak everything the mob throws at you. A lot of DDs still sub NIN for the shadows in battlefields and stuff, and for a DD NIN, it works even better. With the addition of Utsusemi: San, this only got better.

but MNK wins out because it has more HP.

I don't think I've ever heard of a situation where someone denied a PUP because it doesn't have the HP of a Monk...

COR, it can sleep things, it has Light shot, but can use it twice, but because their dice roll doesn't actually 'haste' they get the shaft most of time.

You're right, but they're a fantastic buffer when haste is not needed, thus in conjunction with a GEO or BRD (which, it is used for). CORs go to Yorcia delve, Marjami delve, and sometimes even Kamihr delve, for a few examples.

SMN is the Master of Crowd Control

I'm not even going to touch this.

Which is 80% of the end-game they can't handle that.

No, the most difficult content would be *some* VD battlefields, super tanking on something like Divine Might, and extremely high level Incursion. RUN has no problem in delves or any battlefield lower than VD.

and Nerfing Rudra's is going to kill people that want to play DNC.

DNC is a DD support, not a full on DD job. The support they provide is actually quite high and very useful; they shouldn't be able to deal the absurd amounts of damage they currently do, which is because of how strong Rudra's is. Odds are if people are playing DNC right now, they're going to keep playing it after the update.

This game as 22 jobs, and more than half of them can't do things from peoples stubbornness, lacking capacity, or from just lack of survivability.

This is just false as well. The majority if not all the jobs in the game are actually in a much better state now than ever; the community is just extremely slow to catch on. They're all usable in modern day content. There will always be some content that favors some jobs over others (THF on Wopket is just bad because of his intense pierce resist) but that's beside the point.

[Zeargi]

I'm not even going to touch this.

You don't have to, I'll be happy to school you on the art, seeing how you and I share the same main job. Seeing how Delve seems to be the topic that keeps popping up. I'll use that as the example. People have this tendency to sack pull all the mobs near the mega boss. But a SMN can purge Enmity of all those aggroed mobs with a well place AoE Bloodpact. As long as they are touched by something else I.E.: A Bard's Horde Lullaby. Then all the enmity is then placed on to the Avatar and a simple drag and release will mean less fighting hassle for the party. You're welcome.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't think I've ever heard of a situation where someone denied a PUP because it doesn't have the HP of a Monk...

I don't remember the last time someone even asked to come pup instead of monk. There's probably a reason for that.

DNC is a DD support, not a full on DD job. The support they provide is actually quite high and very useful; they shouldn't be able to deal the absurd amounts of damage they currently do, which is because of how strong Rudra's is. Odds are if people are playing DNC right now, they're going to keep playing it after the update.

You are grossly exaggerating both the desirability of DNC in a party situation and the damage of Rudra's. DNC is at best tolerated in end game content regardless of their supposedly Very high usefulness. They have only begun to be accepted because their damage is finally on par with other DD's. I can probably count on my fingers the number of times I've seen a DNC in end game content (that wasn't me) prior to the rudra's update. They can add all the utility they want to DNC and any other job for that matter, but it isn't community snobbery keeping those jobs down. It's the content and the jobs themselves. The content simply doesn't require anything that a DNC or THF can do except damage. Everything else is covered by jobs that are already going to be there like bard and whm.

You need to go get a spread sheet or a calculator or something. THF/DNC are not head and shoulders above the rest like you seem to think they are and your droning on about Epeen 3000TP Stacked weapon skills is getting ridiculous. Even if they were, it's not hurting anyone. There's not a single event where people will turn you down if you aren't on THF or DNC right now. Go look through the chat log in town. The only difference now is that instead of shouting for SAM, MNK or RNG, people just shout for a DD. Which is how it should be.