Job Adjustments in March 2015 Update

[Smokenttp]

actually rudra is a single hit ws (2 hits if dualwielding wich you probably will be anyway but the ftp (the sextuple damage multiplier) is not replicated on the 2 hit) and as stated before without any ja boosting rudras damage its not op at all and its actually on par with other strong ws like savage blade or even fudo(again without any job ability suport), as for the other ws it does give less damage then rudra but do get close enough (especially using the apropriate weapon for then) even shark bite actually can pull some good number with the apropriate ja setup nowadays.

[Rubeus]

I disagree with nerfing rudra's storm, mandalic stab, mercy stroke -- these WS are already tied uniquely as rewards for work done to get them. But we all know it depends on what the Japanese forums are saying. It's not like they care what the U.S. opinion is on the subject.

EDIT: I say this because the last time I recall having a poll in the forums where they "asked us what we thought" where it WASN'T a yes/no button poll -- that I can recall -- was a few years back during the "what beastmaster pet would you like? *Please note we cannot supersize your order and our shake machine is down." -- the US community had some really good ideas and was largely ignored.

tl;dr: PLEASE implement discussions like this in the form of button-able polls that you have to log-in to the forums in order to participate in. With a comments section for alternative ideas. That way the whole gets represented, not just the community the native developers can largely HAVE a discussion with. Besides, it would be nice to see Bayohne around more anyway.

[Ramzi]

My SAM on a Wopket run can get enough TP to WS before the previous Fudo animation even finishes... constantly, the whole fight. Each Fudo does 4-8k. THF can spike a WS twice per minute. Which is OP again? C'mon SE... like others have said, THF weaponskills are where they should be. Buff the other jobs to bring them up to THF levels, don't nerf THF.

[Alhanelem]

How is it OP when other jobs are still out DDing the jobs that use it on a regular basis? You have to look at damage as a total.

If you ask me, those people who aren't doing higher total damage when they're busting out 5 digit rudras all the time on everyday stuff (and in some circumstances, close to 6) and high 4s against the stronger stuff must be doing something wrong if their total damage is lower. I've been through multiple D mission fights where we're chugging along slowly and then a massive chunk of the mob's HP just vanishes.

I'm hopeful however that they won't go too far and be cautious with the adjustment instead of flat out nerfing it into the ground, because THF deserve their place in the party for more than just TH.

And the last thing I should mention is with rudra's nerfed wtf are we supposed to use when we are solo? None of the other dagger weaponskills are worth using

Well perception is everything. Are they not worth using because Rudra's is a thing or are they genuinely out of balance? They could buff other dagger WS at the same time.

[Ulth]

Well perception is everything. Are they not worth using because Rudra's is a thing or are they genuinely out of balance? They could buff other dagger WS at the same time.

They aren't worth using because the amount of damage done while just auto attacking during the time is about the same, unless you get really lucky with crits on evisceration. Why do you think you never see thieves using anything other than Rudra's? There is a reason for it.

[Alhanelem]

Why do you think you never see thieves using anything other than Rudra's? There is a reason for it.

Because it's OP? If there's an obvious always best option, of course everyone is going to use it. But if the other WS are as bad as you say, then they need help.

[Ulth]

Because it's OP? If there's an obvious always best option, of course everyone is going to use it. But if the other WS are as bad as you say, then they need help.

Okay so daggers have a much lower base damage than say a great katana. A lot of people use this as a reason to say that jobs like thf and dnc shouldn't be allowed to deal as much damage as jobs like sam. But the dps of daggers and great katanas are actually pretty close. That is because daggers have a much lower delay. Only weaponskills don't take into account delay and always take the same amount of time. Because of this low damage weapons need some sort of boost to their weapon skills. That's why weapons with lower delay have more multi hit ws. But because the ftp of weapon skills kept going up multi hits soon fell to the wayside, but SE brought them back by increasing the ftp of them and having them apply to all hits. Only evis didn't get as much as a boost as say cdc. At first look they seem pretty even cdc is less hits so it gets a higher ftp and wsc than evis, but the reason a sword ws has less hits than a dagger one is because swords have a higher delay and a higher base damage, so really the ftp of evis should be higher like cdc's is.

Another thing that changed a lot of how thf works is it used to deal with it's super low base damage by added extra damage from the dex bonus from sneak attack. Only now that everything has such a high ftp and it gets added after the ftp the dex bonus is pretty much nothing. This needs adjusted to be added before ftp much like how ftp is applied to all hits in a multi hit ws. If they did that then rudra's wouldn't need to have such a crazy ftp for thf to do normal damage. I don't know who actually used thf for stuff like delve before the one hand update, but thfs damage then was not okay at all.

Another problem thf was having preupdate rudra was the way ftp scaled at 2000 and 3000 tp. because everything now is done with capped delay you get 3000 tp waiting for timers. This is why for the longest time thfs we asking for faster timers on sa/ta. ftp at 2000 had never been 2x the amount of ftp 1000, let alone above it. That is what was nice about rudra's after the update is how well ftp scaled at higher tps. Having tp work like that fixed the issue with timers.

The amount of damage a stacked rudra's does at 2000tp right now is not OP. It takes a good deal of work, and is dependent on 2 1 minute timers. For one thing the average is greatly exaggerated It's not 30k-45k or what ever people are saying it is. It's actually something like 18k-22k and in that 30 seconds between those any sam could do 3 8k fudos. I'm actually fine with unstacked rudra's taking a hit, but not stacked ones. That's why if they nerf rudra's they need to give some bonus to sneak attack, trick attack, and climatic flourish like having their added damage added in before the ftp.

[Kensagaku]

Even if they nerf Rudra's (which I'm not for or against; I don't play dagger-wielding jobs as a main so I don't have a strong opinion), why are they nerfing Mandalic Stab, Mercy Stroke, and Shark Bite? None of them are particularly broken from what I've seen. Sure, some of them can put out decent stacked damage, but they're nowhere in the field of Rudra's. If SE is so determined to nerf, give Rudra's a minor bat rather than a full-out nerf and leave the other WS alone.

[Scooter]

Thf and Dnc have always been at the lower end of the dd pool, never getting invites to anything except for thf when th was needed. Now they are useful jobs that actually get invites and your gonna nerf them back into non existence? Leave it alone, for 12 years thf has been crapped on by this game and dnc for what 6-7? They are finally usable. If your thf is beating your sam then I got some bad news about your sam.

[Crevox]

I said it before, I'll say it again. Rudra's needed a nerf.

Thank you SE.