Job Adjustments in March 2015 Update

[Smokenttp]

actually rudra is a single hit ws (2 hits if dualwielding wich you probably will be anyway but the ftp (the sextuple damage multiplier) is not replicated on the 2 hit) and as stated before without any ja boosting rudras damage its not op at all and its actually on par with other strong ws like savage blade or even fudo(again without any job ability suport), as for the other ws it does give less damage then rudra but do get close enough (especially using the apropriate weapon for then) even shark bite actually can pull some good number with the apropriate ja setup nowadays.

[Rubeus]

I disagree with nerfing rudra's storm, mandalic stab, mercy stroke -- these WS are already tied uniquely as rewards for work done to get them. But we all know it depends on what the Japanese forums are saying. It's not like they care what the U.S. opinion is on the subject.

EDIT: I say this because the last time I recall having a poll in the forums where they "asked us what we thought" where it WASN'T a yes/no button poll -- that I can recall -- was a few years back during the "what beastmaster pet would you like? *Please note we cannot supersize your order and our shake machine is down." -- the US community had some really good ideas and was largely ignored.

tl;dr: PLEASE implement discussions like this in the form of button-able polls that you have to log-in to the forums in order to participate in. With a comments section for alternative ideas. That way the whole gets represented, not just the community the native developers can largely HAVE a discussion with. Besides, it would be nice to see Bayohne around more anyway.

[Ulth]

There's a small difference in being OP vs OP because of something else. That's like said you shouldn't use a Brew because it maxes out your stats. Rudra's is a sextuple hit WS. If all of them hit then yes it's going to do high damage, but just like any other Multi-hit, I've seen it also do 3-4k. THF is all about positioning, if people are dumb, then it doesn't do "OMGLEETDMG". For a change people are starting to work as a team again, using game mechanics that had almost been all but tossed aside. SAM can do equally fine with the crap ton of JA it has to augment WS/SC/Save TP. And yet nothing of theirs is being changed.

Umm... that's not how Rudra's storm works. It has a multiplier based on tp. That is why it is good for sneak/trick/climactic. You use it with one of those abilities when you have around 2000tp so the multiplier is 15, so the damage of your main hit gets multiplied by 15, then that damage gets adjusted for being a crit.

Anyway I'm not optimistic about this adjustment. Since mandalic stab, mercy stroke, and shark bite are all pretty bad maybe those will actually get a boost. But again dagger damage isn't actually that good. Thief and dancer need weapons skills with high ftps because the base damage of daggers is much lower. Other one hand jobs deal with this with multi hit weapon skills like cdc, but multi hit weaponskills don't benefit from our signature job abilities for dealing damage as only the first hit in a round is crited.

Also people seem to be forgetting that these are not done at 1000tp and are comparing our ws at 2000tp and upset that when we use one with twice as much tp it does twice as much damage as theirs. For years thieves have been complaining about how long sneak attack timers are because you would get 1000tp before the timer was up. Now that we have a weaponskill that synergies with holding onto our tp for one big guaranteed hit It actually works well, and they want to ruin that...

And the last thing I should mention is with rudra's nerfed wtf are we supposed to use when we are solo? None of the other dagger weaponskills are worth using. Am I just supposed to white damage my way through salvage?

[Ramzi]

My SAM on a Wopket run can get enough TP to WS before the previous Fudo animation even finishes... constantly, the whole fight. Each Fudo does 4-8k. THF can spike a WS twice per minute. Which is OP again? C'mon SE... like others have said, THF weaponskills are where they should be. Buff the other jobs to bring them up to THF levels, don't nerf THF.

[Alhanelem]

How is it OP when other jobs are still out DDing the jobs that use it on a regular basis? You have to look at damage as a total.

If you ask me, those people who aren't doing higher total damage when they're busting out 5 digit rudras all the time on everyday stuff (and in some circumstances, close to 6) and high 4s against the stronger stuff must be doing something wrong if their total damage is lower. I've been through multiple D mission fights where we're chugging along slowly and then a massive chunk of the mob's HP just vanishes.

I'm hopeful however that they won't go too far and be cautious with the adjustment instead of flat out nerfing it into the ground, because THF deserve their place in the party for more than just TH.

And the last thing I should mention is with rudra's nerfed wtf are we supposed to use when we are solo? None of the other dagger weaponskills are worth using

Well perception is everything. Are they not worth using because Rudra's is a thing or are they genuinely out of balance? They could buff other dagger WS at the same time.

[Kensagaku]

Even if they nerf Rudra's (which I'm not for or against; I don't play dagger-wielding jobs as a main so I don't have a strong opinion), why are they nerfing Mandalic Stab, Mercy Stroke, and Shark Bite? None of them are particularly broken from what I've seen. Sure, some of them can put out decent stacked damage, but they're nowhere in the field of Rudra's. If SE is so determined to nerf, give Rudra's a minor bat rather than a full-out nerf and leave the other WS alone.

[Zeargi]

Umm... that's not how Rudra's storm works. It has a multiplier based on tp. That is why it is good for sneak/trick/climactic. You use it with one of those abilities when you have around 2000tp so the multiplier is 15, so the damage of your main hit gets multiplied by 15, then that damage gets adjusted for being a crit.

Anyway I'm not optimistic about this adjustment. Since mandalic stab, mercy stroke, and shark bite are all pretty bad maybe those will actually get a boost. But again dagger damage isn't actually that good. Thief and dancer need weapons skills with high ftps because the base damage of daggers is much lower. Other one hand jobs deal with this with multi hit weapon skills like cdc, but multi hit weaponskills don't benefit from our signature job abilities for dealing damage as only the first hit in a round is crited.

My apologizes, I miss read the games description. I saw the Sextuple DMG, and perceived it as a Mutlihit much like Shattersouls or Predator Claws.. Either way, I'm on your side. I'm not gonna lie and say I know everything term that's been added.

[Ladynamine]

Hail, adventurers! Matsui here with an update for you.

I would like to inform you that, based on your feedback, we have begun to consider balance adjustments for melee jobs, specifically the thief and samurai, in the March version update.

We are currently looking at adjusting balance in the following two ways:



I would like to share with you the thought process behind these adjustments.

• The addition of Ardor
  In our preview of job adjustments several days prior, we made mention of a new magic spell known as “Ardor.” We elected to add this spell in order to decrease the gaps in damage dealt between the various melee jobs.
  
  As noted in that topic, Ardor increases skillchain damage based on the number of successful melee hits up until the time the weapon skill is activated.
  
  Jobs that often go for long periods of time without using weapon skills will receive stronger bonuses, thereby decreasing the damage gap that currently exists.

• The adjustment of certain dagger weapon skills
  One topic keeps popping up where we hear players discussing the thief: skillchain damage when using the weapon skills Sneak Attack and Trick Attack
  
  These skills are particularly effective in content such as Wanted battles, where it‘s possible for thieves to accumulate TP in advance and when combat ends in a short period of time, but we believe that this is one of the job’s strengths.
  
  Not all content enables players to accumulate TP in advance the way Wanted battles do, and other melee classes are competitive with thieves in extended combat scenarios.
  
  As such, we wish to avoid adjusting Sneak Attack and Trick Attack, as doing so would be tantamount to destroying part of the thief job’s identity.
  
  However, in its current state thief damage output is on par with or even surpasses that of other melee jobs even in long duration combat, and upon looking at melee jobs as a whole, we cannot deny that thieves are located at the top of the charts in a wide variety of content.
  
  Ardor has an incredibly strong synergy with thieves, who autoattack quite frequently, and thus we expect that their skillchain damage would increase to numbers even higher than they currently are. As such, we believe it necessary to somewhat reduce the potency or certain dagger weaponskills in order to maintain balance with other jobs.
  
  We are currently considering adjusting the following four weaponskills.
  
  
  
  These adjustments are meant to normalize damage between melee jobs, and there are some adjustments that can be viewed as nerfs when taken on the individual job level, so we wished to communicate these details to you in advance as we continue to thoroughly discuss this matter.

Because you know:

It's NERF or Nothin'!

Seriously, You are taking away DNC's 1 good ws that can do decent damage. But why am I not suprised.

[Scooter]

Thf and Dnc have always been at the lower end of the dd pool, never getting invites to anything except for thf when th was needed. Now they are useful jobs that actually get invites and your gonna nerf them back into non existence? Leave it alone, for 12 years thf has been crapped on by this game and dnc for what 6-7? They are finally usable. If your thf is beating your sam then I got some bad news about your sam.

[Crevox]

I said it before, I'll say it again. Rudra's needed a nerf.

Thank you SE.