Job Adjustments in March 2015 Update

[Manux]

This just in...I just watched this video.....HOLY CRAP!

SMN is the new god of everything. 99999 flaming crush and 99999 light Skillchain (display cap) one shotting delve 2 NMs? Whaaaaaaaat!? They killed Wopket in ~8 seconds. What are my eyes seeing?


Yeah THF definitely needs a nerf.

because of one smn you saw on youtube and now you want a nerf for smn lol (lets not forget that smn is a Mythic user)
Is this guy for real we saw a lot more thf that are overpowered compared to smn.
Its ok if we see a drk/war/drg on youtube will nerf it as well

[Nebo]

because of one smn you saw on youtube and now you want a nerf for smn lol

Is this guy for real we saw alot more thf that are overpowered compare to smn.

Where did I ask for a SMN nerf? Also when we talk about job nerfs, its about job potential. I'm happy to point out that the THF job (mythic or otherwise) cannot do that kind of damage on that content level and that no one is crying SMN nerf.

Whether or not people play a job to its potential (or how many) has no bearing on what that job's potential actually is.

My greater point is that most of the people crying that THF is OP, are really unqualified to be making those assertions (unfortunately, even the dev team in this case). Mostly becuase they have no idea what other jobs are really capable of and are basing these remarks off their own experiences...where 99% of the time they are just incapable of pushing whichever job to its potential in the first place.

The problem? The dev team seems to take its queues to where jobs stand by the amount of complaining they hear from the playerbase. They don't seem to have a real grasp on how the mechanics actually play out or what endgame groups really look like.. Virtually all groups take some combination of BRD COR GEO RDM etc. Capping Attack on SAM/WAR with proper food using a STR mod WS (increases STR/VIT ratio, WS Mod, and Attack) is trivial. The fact that the dev team does not know powerful this is at all content levels is worrisom. Especially when these jobs can exponentially increase their damage with haste and other powerful support buffs.

It doesnt matter at all if a melee job is balanced without support buffs or on low level content. If they can't compete with full support buffs (capped delay reduction, acc, att/def ratio, etc) on endgame content, they aren't getting invited. You'd think that if they played the game, they'd know that by now.

[Ulth]

Where did I ask for a SMN nerf? Also when we talk about job nerfs, its about job potential. I'm happy to point out that the THF job (mythic or otherwise) cannot do that kind of damage on that content level and that no one is crying SMN nerf.

Whether or not people play a job to its potential (or how many) or not has no bearing on what that jobs potential actually is.

My greater point is that most of the people crying that THF is OP, are really unqualified to be making those assertions. Mostly becuase they have no idea what other jobs are really capable of and are basing these remarks off their own experiences...where 99% of the time they are just incapable of pushing whichever job to its potential in the first place.

Pretty much this. Thf isn't op, just lots of people like playing it. Lots of love goes into finding best in slot thf's sets. You should see how heated the debates get on ffxiah. And even if you think it's easier to gear thf to do okay damage, when it comes to balance that should be adjusting the upper limit of the job, and the upper limit of thf is far from op. I don't like having my favorite job being the bandwagon job right now, but I don't want it to be nerfed into nothing.

I must say though after watching the video I'm very impressed with that 4 man group. Run served multiple purposes, tank, opening skillchains, and used gambit to make the mobs weaker to fire. The geo's Malaise also helped with the extra magic damage. I didn't pay much attention to the cor, but I'm half surprised they didn't have them go /nin for Hyoton: Ni. Also that was the best smn I ever seen. I guess that is to be expected from a mythic smn.

[Alhanelem]

Pretty much this. Thf isn't op, just lots of people like playing it. Lots of love goes into finding best in slot thf's sets. You should see how heated the debates get on ffxiah. And even if you think it's easier to gear thf to do okay damage, when it comes to balance that should be adjusting the upper limit of the job, and the upper limit of thf is far from op. I don't like having my favorite job being the bandwagon job right now, but I don't want it to be nerfed into nothing.

I must say though after watching the video I'm very impressed with that 4 man group. Run served multiple purposes, tank, opening skillchains, and used gambit to make the mobs weaker to fire. The geo's Malaise also helped with the extra magic damage. I didn't pay much attention to the cor, but I'm half surprised they didn't have them go /nin for Hyoton: Ni. Also that was the best smn I ever seen. I guess that is to be expected from a mythic smn.

THF is OP (or more accurately, Rudra's is OP). You're only saying it's not OP because you're a THF.

[Malthar]

All I see is that Papesse uses windower and you just told on him.

[Nebo]

All I see is that Papesse uses windower and you just told on him.

I didnt post the video (he's obviously not that concerned about it posting videos to youtube), but if that is all you saw, you need your eyes checked

[Ophannus]

The way it should be is, if you let SAM have strong SC potential, then let WAR and DRK have high WS damage, and DRG have high WS frequency. Every DD should specialize in one or two aspects of damage, yet SAM specializes in all of them with no weakness. For example. DRG has pretty high WS frequency due to Jumps, but DRG has flaws in WS attack power. WAR and DRK have decent WS power but gain TP slower compared to SAM and DRG. SAM weapon skills harder, more frequently and skillchains better. You need to bring other DDs' WS power above and beyond Samurai's -- especially WAR and DRK as they are jobs that sacrifice defense and/or HP for increased power. The concept should be RISK=REWARD. WAR and DRK use risky abilities like Berserk and Last Resort to increase their power but risk taking hate and dying. SAM WS just as hard, if not harder than DRK and WAR, but have no penalties to defense or HP and Hasso and Hagakure don't produce the same kind of volatile enmity as Soul Eater and Last Resort do. WAR and DRK should be glass cannons that when their abilities are used, have the strongest attack power and WS damage in the game. SAM should have weaker WS in comparison because they can WS much more frequently and skillchain better. DRG should be somewhere in between as they have poor skillchain weapon skills but they have pet bonuses.


Long story, short:
SAM: Leave as is.
DRK: Increase Scythe and Greatsword power, predominantly 1-hit WS so they have similar risks as Fudo(chance to miss completely), Souleater potency increased, Last Resort potency increased. High Risk=High Reward.
WAR: Increased attack power from Berserk, like +40-45%, increased power of Retraint. Maybe a trait or JA that allows WS to ignore some defense.
DRG: Abolish Drakesbane's attack penalty. It has a 4.0 modifier with a small chance to crit, the -20% attack penalty it has is much too harsh, lower high jump timers and increase potency and frequency of Conserve TP. Maybe add in a job ability that allows additional hits of multi-hit weapon skills to give the same TP as the first hit, 5min recast. It would harken back to the days of when DRG could gain back 60-70% TP from Penta Thrust.

Higher delay weapon types: Scythe, Gaxe, Great Sword, Polearm should have stronger Weapon Skills than Great Katanas. Great Katana and by extension SAM's role should be moderate melee DPS damage with powerful(but not the best) weapon skills and high skilchain prowess. WAR and DRK should have powerful WS on par with Fudo, but when using JAs that increase risk like Berserk/Last Resort/Soul Eater, damage should be UNPARALLELED. DRG's WS should be stronger than Samurais but weaker than Warrior and Dark Knights, given that Polearms are weaker than Great Axes and Scythes and can't Skillchain as well, yet DRGs have other tools like hate reduction and a pet.

[Camate]

Greetings, everyone.

I’d like to share a comment from Producer Matsui as a follow-up to his recent post.

Matsui here.

I’ve spoken to the lead and checked up on the major feedback and questions we have been receiving, so I’d like to comment on these points.

• Weapon skills other than Rudra’s Storm
  Dagger weapon skills have a high damage multiplier, and regardless of what TP amount you choose to use it, it will still elicit a high amount of damage.
  
  The weapon skill adjustments in June and December of 2014 strived to shine light on weapon skills that were not being used as much anymore and also to increase the range of options available. However, as a result, the stats for weapon skills with TP damage modifiers became much more prominent.
  
  I would like to do everything I can to preserve the special characteristic of these weapon skills that allow you to deal large amounts of damage when you save TP; however, if we continue onward with the current multiplier, I feel it would be difficult to create balance with the other types of weapons. Due to this, I believe it is necessary to slightly reduce the multiplier.

• Effects towards dagger wielding jobs such as bard and dancer
  Bard, in addition to dealing damage through weapon skills, is a support-type job that aids their party through their songs. Currently, I feel that they possess a sufficient amount of capabilities in parties, and as such there are no plans to make adjustments for their melee damage.
  
  With the job trait that allows them to increase skillchain damage as well as Climatic Flourish, dancer is currently in position right after thief as a job that can deal solid weapon skill damage. They also have a high amount of utility with their other abilities, and we do not have any plans of making adjustments to dancer based on the current damage output of Rudra’s Storm.

• Isn’t samurai overpowered because their self-skillchain with Tachi: Fudo is very powerful?
  Even when it comes to the values that were measured while the development team was conducting play testing, the amount of damage dealt by self-skillchaining with Tachi: Fudo exceeded that of other damage dealing jobs in many cases, and it’s a fact that samurai is currently an extremely powerful damage dealer.
  
  However, while Tachi: Fudo is the great katana weapon skill of choice at the moment, in addition to requiring the entire party’s support to elicit the sought-after high damage, the damage also largely varies due to the attack-defense ratio between you and the monster, and standing in front of the monster to gain the bonus of Overwhelm is a risk. (Tachi: Fudo is still very powerful when fighting enemies that are lower than your own level, but job balance adjustments are made based on fighting high level monsters.)
  
  Considering these factors as well as samurai’s job design which doesn’t give them much in terms of abilities that affect the entire party, I feel that lowering samurai’s damage dealing capabilities would severely limit the situations they can be useful, and as such we will not be making any adjustments as of the March version update.
  
  We will continue to monitor the balance between samurai and other damage dealing jobs, and we will continue to look into adjustments based on the feedback we receive.

• The frequency of recasting Ardor and its effect on two-handed weapon jobs
  As a result of proceeding to make adjustments to the stats of Ardor, we’ve determined that its effects on two-handed weapons other than great katana are not sufficient enough and the damage output has not been equalized enough. Due to these reasons, we are in the midst of revamping the effect of Ardor.
  
  We are planning to make the revamped Ardor have an effect where a skillchain damage bonus will be given depending on the amount of players that participate in the skillchain and the amount of weapon variety present. This means that it will be possible to achieve higher damage when skillchaining with other players and other weapon types compared to skillchaining by yourself.
  
  There will be no changes to the jobs that can use this spell or the level it is learned, so we are still planning to make it a red mage spell that can be learned at level 64.
  
  Furthermore, we’ve been receiving feedback concerned that red mages will have to recast this spell on party members every time the party wants to perform a skillchain, but we are planning to change this spell from an enhancing magic spell cast on party members to an enfeebling spell that is cast on monsters, so please do not worry about this.
  
  However, due to these aforementioned changes, we will have to push back the implementation of Ardor to the version update that takes place after March, and we will only be making the weapon skills adjustments ahead of time in the March version update.
  
  This means that we will be performing a so-called “nerf” ahead of time, but please allow me to explain the reasoning in the next section.

• Weapon skill adjustment timing
  In the March version update, in addition to the job adjustments being discussed, we will also be implementing new high-difficulty battle content known as Vagary.
  
  In the event that we were to delay the weapon skill adjustments along with Ardor, the weapon skill adjustments would take place after Vagary has already been implemented, and it would result in very different situations for players who challenged this high-difficulty content before the adjustment and those who challenge it after, even though the adjustments are slight.
  
  Due to this, in order to prevent players who plan on challenging this content right away from gaining an advantage, I feel it’s necessary to implement the weapon skill adjustments at the same time that we implement Vagary.

• Damage dealing capabilities of warrior, dark knight, and black mage
  Separately from the addition of Ardor, I feel that adjustments are needed for warrior and dark knight, whose primary role is to deal damage with their two-handed weapon similar to samurai, as well as black mage whose elemental magic spells do not receive a bonus from Ardor.
  
  We’re currently looking into adjusting existing abilities and job traits for warrior, and adding new abilities to dark knight.
  
  In regards to elemental magic, we’re planning to make adjustments that increase the potency of magic bursts in the March version update. Additionally, we’re looking into adding new black mage abilities and boosting their damage dealing capabilities.
  
  As we’re still in the discussion stages of adjustments other than the magic burst adjustment, there is a possibility that the details will change, but we’ll be announcing information on topics and the forums in the future.

Thank you so much for all the feedback and thoughts on this matter, and I hope you continue to provide your feedback on it moving forward.

[MilkMansKid]

Total BS. I'd say more but it wouldn't matter anyway as we can see from that post.

[Nebo]

lol

SAM = not OP (because capping attack is hard ) and who wants to play with BRD/COR/GEO/RDM anyway?

THF = OP because strategically and positionally skillchaining cooperatively with other jobs in your party creates damage!

I know its an old game, but you developement bros should try playing it sometimes. Its kind of fun!