Rune Fencer & Ninja ~ Small Idea to Make it a Real Tank

[Ulth]

You also said ;



So, people using the charm ability for years, and noticing that it fails a lot on Darksday, is somehow less scientific than your "I associate youth and beauty with water" claim that charm and affection are somehow water related.

I associate water with lots of things, including tidal waves, floods, drowning etc. lol

Thanks for taking what I said out of context, that is very mature of you. No it's not as scientific as "Me and all my friends agree", but is just as scientific of the transitive properties of charm = love, love = light, therefore charm = light. You know the thing I was responding to at the time.

This whole argument is silly. Ulth is jsut casting doubt for the sake of casting doubt. While even I demand evidence to support conclusions, charm isn't a new thing in this game, people have had plenty of time to observe how it works. It's not like there isn't any in game material including dialogue, various equipment, ability icon colors that supports what's being said in here, along with a plethora of available targets and methods to determine what influences charm success rate.

Kind of hilarious how a thread about making tank jobs tank better turned into a debate on whether or not charm is light based.

As far as links between elements and core attributes, PUP, WHM RDM and GEO make (Most of) these associations explicitly clear:

Fire maneuver increases the automaton's STR; Boost/Gain-STR and geo/indi-STR are fire element
Wind increases AGI; Boost/gain AGI and geo/indi AGI are wind element
Thunder " DEX; " " DEX are Thunder element
Water " MND; " " MND are Water element
Ice " INT; " " MND are Ice element
Earth " VIT; " " VIT are Earth element
Light maneuver increases CHR, HP with appropriate attachment; " " CHR are Light element
(Here is where it's slightly cloudier)
Dark maneuver increases MP with appropriate attachment. MP is the only core stat the dark element is ever really associated with, with dark element equipment typically having MP where light element equipment typically has HP on it (but both HP and MP recovery can be either dark or light depending on the school of magic the spell comes from)

Thank you for trivializing my concern that the player base might be wrong about something, (not like that has ever happened before, am I right?)

You're right I think they were doing gauge for other things been a long time since I read alla.... here ya go

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.htm...6&h=50&p=6#280

Thanks for that link. It was an interesting read, and also the only thanks I wasn't sarcastic about.

Hmm, Well I see dasva managed to find some decent testing before I posted. Well, that renders my post more or less irrelevant, but I guess I'll post it anyway.

Oh, and someone go nuke that derpy charm wiki page and link that testing to your edit.
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I wouldn't blame anyone for questioning the current community knowledge base, this is part of how we correct old errors and learn new things, however...

Anecdotal evidence >>> No evidence. You're basing your stance off a single relatively recent wiki edit by some unknown wiki'er. No source. no citations. no testimonials. no nothing.

Now, do I have some indepth charm element testing handy? Nope. I suspect with enough digging into some really old BST posts, we might find some. But why would anyone? It's been known and accepted in general by the gaming community for years.

As the one proposing that the current accepted element for charm is in error, the burden of proof is on you. So if you want any of the rest of us to change our potentially erroneous ways then get out there and create that test data you want.

Well I was going to try and do some testing, but after 20 minutes or so of Dom Juan not using Frog Song on me I have come to the conclusion that it would take more time than I am willing to put in to get a large enough sample size. So I give up. I don't care. If no one else is interested in finding out if the world is round or not why should I.

[Martel]

Well I was going to try and do some testing, but after 20 minutes or so of Dom Juan not using Frog Song on me I have come to the conclusion that it would take more time than I am willing to put in to get a large enough sample size. So I give up. I don't care. If no one else is interested in finding out if the world is round or not why should I.

Well, the rest of us were pretty sure about it in any case. Which dasva later vindicated.

But I actually went out to go do some testing as well. Seeing as I don't have BST, I went to try resisting charm on RUN. I've had the experience of resisting charm reliably on Hyoscya(yorcia delve T5), but... it'd take a painfully long time to get good sample sizes from that.

So, I went to the most charm spammy NM in existence. The All-seeing Onyx eye. It spams a gaze version of charm about every 5 seconds. Figured I could rack up data pretty fast. So I thought....

No matter how high I stacked up the magic evasion and light/water resist, I could NOT get a full resist at all. Lvl 75 era NM, and I couldn't resist it with +331 light resist(451 water), +381 magic evasion, AND an Idris GEO's Attunement+Vex....

I came to the conclusion that the damn thing didn't have a resist check. Probably cause you can avoid it just by turning around. Went to the other NM in the same zone that also charms, if far less frequently. Repeat the above paragraph. lol. /sigh

I shoulda just gone to Hyoscya. I can reliably resist the charm from level 128(I think?) content, but 75 era NMs are unresistable?

So anyway. After blowing ~2 hours for 0 results. I came to basically the same conclusion as you, and quit. Then wrote up the post you quoted, saw dasva's post, and figured, case closed.