Two handed weapon woes

[Ophannus]

It seems like in the effort to balance one-handed melees with two-handed melees, you guys went overboard. One handed jobs get a metric ton of Double Attack, Triple Attack, and Quadruple Attack gear, tons of Delay reduction gear, and have various buffs to their Double/Triple Attack rate through things like Saber Dance or Blue Magic Traits.
No reason why Chant du Cygne from a 131 base damage weapon on BLU, or Rudra Storm without Sneak Attack from a 108 base damage dagger should be doing greater damage than Upheaval from a 260+ base damage weapon. WAR/DRK/DRG have relatively weak weapon skills and we were relying on our twohanded bonuses. The 3STR=2Att and 3DEX=2ACC thing was originally given to 2handed jobs because twohanded jobs get only one weapon, while 1handed jobs can offhand a second weapon to give them increased Accuracy. The accuracy bonuses on 2handed weapons is the same or only slightly greater than a 1handed weapon, additionally a 1handed job can dual wield a weapon with 'occasionally attacks twice' without hurting their weapon skill damage, since weapon skill's base damage is based on the main hand's base damage. Two-handed weapon jobs get no such luck.

I'm all for one handed jobs approaching 2hand jobs in order to narrow the gap. THF should be able to be on par with 2hand jobs through use of its abilities. But as it stands now? A THF's base Rudra Storm, without any JAs, is more or less as powerful as DRG's Stardiver or WAR's Upheaval. In most RPGs, Thieves can only match a 2handed job's power when using a special back-stab like ability. As of right now, a base-line THF WS matches a 2h job's WS. When stacked? It's about 3-4x stronger. Ridiculous. While DNC THF BLU should approach 2-handed weaponskills, they shouldn't be surpassing them...


Also for emphasis added, here are weapon skill values I was able to reach on 131 Incursion as BRD/WHM. Yes. I was doing 14k Rudra Storms as BRD/WHM. By comparison, Stardiver on my Ryunohige DRG averages and Upheaval from Conqueror WAR were averaging 6-7k. Should Bard weapon skills outdamage two hand jobs?




Need to tone back the Rudra Storm potency or increase 2hand weapon skill potency(more emphasis on Scythe , Great Axe and Polearm, Great Katana is already extremely, extremely, extremely powerful due to SAM being able to be a solo damage dealer in Delve, doing over 80k from a 6 step skillchain.)

[dasva]

Well they are doing something special they are saving tp.... which is compounded by slower tp gain. So yeah you might do a little more but if you aren't stacking your overall ws dmg will probably be lower. Also not sure what you are getting on about delay reduction when 2hders can cap it too but in a way that doesn't lower their tp gain like dual wielding does and both get lots of da/ta etc gear and traits. Though yeah none as good as saber dance.


The problem is you are choosing to use a ws that doesn't scale (or at least not as well) and then compare it to a ws that does with people who are saving tp. Want to bust out more dmg on war? Ditch the gaxe and use a gswd and resolution. And yeah drg is notorious about having poor ws. But were those comparisons for stardriver at as high a tp as those rudra's? Rough math says if those are unstacked that those are rudra's with capped pdif and 3000 tp and a 3000 stardriver should be a lot closer probably averaging about as much. And resolution should be a tad more.

Another problem is they designed this game/jobs with certain ideas in mind. One of those being that things like job att buffs actually matter. Normally the huge att buff you get from having your wyvern out for drg, or berserk for war or last resort for drk would make a decent difference in the dmgs. But we've gained the ability to in good groups with the right jobs to even allow brd/whms to cap pdif against harder stuff which nullifies a decent bit of advantage 2hders had built in

Also if they are considering toning some up they should also include the 1hders that they barely touched like club, axe and kat. Especially since like drg and polearms, axe and kat have jobs where that is the only real option (I suppose nin could use dagger but with no rudra meh. Though evisceration is kinda strong.)

[Ophannus]

It's hard to glean from the pictures, but I was TPing at about 1300 TP. This was the day after the update before I knew Rudras had a big modifier at 3000 TP.

Also, like I said, THF can use Rudras at 1000 TP and deal more damage than Stardiver at 1000TP. The problem is Rudra is very strong even at 1000TP.
Ideally it should scale high with 2000 and 3000 but 1000 should be weaker than other option(which it kinda is; Evisceration is better at 1000 TP technically). When I take my THF into Incursion, my Eviscerations even at 1000 TP do roughly the same or more than my DRG's Stardivers at 1000.

[Raydeus]

What was the overall damage parsing though? Because THF requires SATA and Assassin's Charge to do the big numbers with Rudra's and does pretty much no auto attack damage.

Because from what I've seen playing the game this is all just 2-handed DDs just QQ'ing over not having the highest burst numbers even though they still far outdamage 1 handed jobs over all.

[dasva]

It's hard to glean from the pictures, but I was TPing at about 1300 TP. This was the day after the update before I knew Rudras had a big modifier at 3000 TP.

Also, like I said, THF can use Rudras at 1000 TP and deal more damage than Stardiver at 1000TP. The problem is Rudra is very strong even at 1000TP.
Ideally it should scale high with 2000 and 3000 but 1000 should be weaker than other option(which it kinda is; Evisceration is better at 1000 TP technically). When I take my THF into Incursion, my Eviscerations even at 1000 TP do roughly the same or more than my DRG's Stardivers at 1000.

If those were normal situations and normal numbers you'd have a point... but they aren't. I can't see your full stats but assuming you have around 100 base dex even if we assume you are capping fstr (highly unlikely), capping pdif, rolling the upper limit, getting the 5% from randomizer, if that 14525 really was at effective 1550 tp (I assume that is a tp bonus earring) you would had to get 5 extra attacks on that ws which isn't even possible on brd/whm using rudra's especially given how you have hardly any multi attack to being with. So clearly even with extreme luck that would be far from typical that ws was either at a higher tp (more like 2100 before tp earring possibly a little bit lower if you got some multi attacks but still decently higher than 1300) or that was a completely different gear/job set that actually did the ws.

Also as mention huge diff in frequency

And let's get into how you are capping pdif in the first place. That 1000+ att is rather decently buffed att to begin with for a brd/whm I'd guess at least 2 minuets with att food or maybe chaos roll. Even then you wouldn't be anywhere near capping pdif. Don't know gramks def especially at certain lvls but I'd assume at 131 he would have at least Tojil def you'd need at least -75% defense. If you start taking some of that off the rudra's dmg will drop off (typical rudra's without SA/TA for me at 1000% with similar attack but no def down is more like 4-6k on lol delve fodder) but the 2hers with their str mods and att boosts will maintain for quite awhile. So it's not really that brd rudra's is better just that rudra's is better on mobs that are have the defense of lvl 75 era xp mobs. If anything this is an indictment on +att buff stacking and def down stacking and/or geo especially in alliance play. It completely invalidates the advantages of str mods, last resort, att bonus, berserk, Warcry (outside of the tp bonus), the ability to eat att food due to higher innate acc, drgs wyvern bonus, and various att boosts on some ws.