Merits > Job Points!

[Singforu]

People who aren't done meriting feel the same way about players who are done with merits being able to spam high level fights. People who aren't finished leveling feel the same way about people who are 99 being able to get merits instead of exp.

What's the difference?

People who aren't done meriting shouldn't be feeling that way about those who get to kill high level fights, because it isn't double dipping; you're choosing to use merits on fights which isn't character progression. The same thing for those not finished leveling to those getting merits... it's not double dipping, you're only getting character progression once (those less than 99 can do the same thing by changing the mode from exp to merits).

[FrankReynolds]

People who aren't done meriting shouldn't be feeling that way about those who get to kill high level fights, because it isn't double dipping; you're choosing to use merits on fights which isn't character progression. The same thing for those not finished leveling to those getting merits... it's not double dipping, you're only getting character progression once (those less than 99 can do the same thing by changing the mode from exp to merits).

Those fights drop 119 gear. Are you saying that going from 99-119 isn't progression? Because that's not how the developers describe it.

[Selindrile]

you seem to be mixing ideas in the same sentence. but to not assume, i will ask: what does you having HTB to use merits on, or you preferring to see JP come quick, have to do with my argument: since JP is another form of leveling, and that merits can't be converted to exp rings/pages that they shouldn't be able to be converted to the equivalent JP?

It's a mix of related ideas, certainly, to explain while I don't really have a strong opinion on the OP's statement. I was saying I would be unlikely to spend merits on Job Points as I spend them on HTBs. This statement was saying that even though I don't strongly support the OPs suggestion, I still think your argument was ridiculous.

exactly. because capacity is a form of exp.

In a manner, but you missed the entire point, you can't exchange exp for exp rings or for exp scrolls because it would be moot. Exchanging it into CP or JP would not. There are plenty of ways to change most forms of currency into gil, and even ways for you to exchange one type of currency into different denominations used for different things of it's own type which have different uses, and of course vouchers that change into most types of currency.

you still had to kill something, so no, you didn't exchange merits for capacity.

See the same argument when you say you can't exchange it for JP rings, or heck, could even say "You still had to use a Capacity Scroll, so no, you didn't exchange merit points for capacity.

to what limit? as someone else suggested, do you want a button on the main menu that when you press it gives you JP? I believe we should have the same access to JP as we do EXP. Anything beyond that is unacceptable. So yes, I advocate more places of getting CP than what is currently present (i.e.: CP pages you get from doing a quest), but within the restriction i just mentioned.

To a logical limit that makes the majority of the player base happy enough to keep playing, but busy enough not to run out of things to do, which is the only logical thing to strive for in MMO design. I believe we currently gain JP too slowly, I can't state a concrete number, but I do believe doubling the amount of CP we obtain would do such, even over the long haul, could it be raised past that? Probably, but I wouldn't hazard an exact guess where the cut off point is for too much or too little exactly, but I feel we're a far cry away from that at the moment.

[Singforu]

Those fights drop 119 gear. Are you saying that going from 99-119 isn't progression? Because that's not how the developers describe it.

it's artificial progression. goes away as soon as you switch gear or a mob/environment gives you encumberance.

[Singforu]

It's a mix of related ideas, certainly, to explain while I don't really have a strong opinion on the OP's statement. I was saying I would be unlikely to spend merits on Job Points as I spend them on HTBs. This statement was saying that even though I don't strongly support the OPs suggestion, I still think your argument was ridiculous.

My argument goes like this: the argument given for exchanging merits to JP is "I want". I contend that that is not a valid argument (which is why I put forth the quip about a Job Point button). I put forth that there is no precedence for the exchange (which is acceptable until a valid argument is given to change so). You on the other hand didn't put any valid arguments. So what is ridiculous is your reply.

In a manner, but you missed the entire point, you can't exchange exp for exp rings or for exp scrolls because it would be moot.

No it wouldn't. Don't know why you are thinking this unless you are situation biased with all jobs capped.

There are plenty of ways to change most forms of currency into gil, and even ways for you to exchange one type of currency into different denominations used for different things of it's own type which have different uses, and of course vouchers that change into most types of currency.

comparing apples and oranges. exp is not currency. and you used as an example changing currency into gil, gil is currency.

See the same argument when you say you can't exchange it for JP rings, or heck, could even say "You still had to use a Capacity Scroll, so no, you didn't exchange merit points for capacity.

correct, it's not exchanging merit points for capacity, it's exchanging it for CP scrolls/rings. Still doesn't mean one should be allowed to exchange merits for them. There is no precedence of exchanging merits for exp scrolls/rings, and as such there should be no exchanging of merits for CP scrolls/rings.

[FrankReynolds]

it's artificial progression. goes away as soon as you switch gear or a mob/environment gives you encumberance.

And your weapon merits go away as soon as the monster casts blind. What's your point?

[Singforu]

And your weapon merits go away as soon as the monster casts blind. What's your point?

you didn't seriously just say that. i will reply just in case to humor you. your weapon merits do not go away as soon as a monster casts blind. you still have the skill. for instance, for those weapon skills that require you to have a certain skill level, even if a monster casts blind you will still be able to use those weapon skills even if you were right at the skill level required because your skill in that weapon does not go down. if you meant the accuracy down effect from blind.... you still have the attack from the skill. i suppose next you'll add a mob casts bio to reduce your attack as well. neither of these are acceptable as an argument, that is looking at the secondary effects of the skill and not the skill itself. If you didn't have those merits, the effects of blind on your accuracy would have been even more so. One cannot say blind is negating those merits, it is negating your overall accuracy.

the point was that you brought up gear as progression as an argument against what I said, so I countered your argument with it isn't actual progression; it's temporary based on putting on gear of which is quite often swapped out for non ilevel by mages and removed completely by mobs/environment situations. This is the equivalent of de-leveling and re-leveling a dozen levels instantly, which is a preposterous notion. Hence, calling it artificial progress and should not be counted as a valid argument against the double dipping argument.

[FrankReynolds]

you didn't seriously just say that. i will reply just in case to humor you. your weapon merits do not go away as soon as a monster casts blind. you still have the skill. for instance, for those weapon skills that require you to have a certain skill level, even if a monster casts blind you will still be able to use those weapon skills even if you were right at the skill level required because your skill in that weapon does not go down. if you meant the accuracy down effect from blind.... you still have the attack from the skill. i suppose next you'll add a mob casts bio to reduce your attack as well. neither of these are acceptable as an argument, that is looking at the secondary effects of the skill and not the skill itself. If you didn't have those merits, the effects of blind on your accuracy would have been even more so. One cannot say blind is negating those merits, it is negating your overall accuracy.

the point was that you brought up gear as progression as an argument against what I said, so I countered your argument with it isn't actual progression; it's temporary based on putting on gear of which is quite often swapped out for non ilevel by mages and removed completely by mobs/environment situations. This is the equivalent of de-leveling and re-leveling a dozen levels instantly, which is a preposterous notion. Hence, calling it artificial progress and should not be counted as a valid argument against the double dipping argument.

It's all the same. Losing stats because a monster casts a spell. The mechanism doesn't matter. the outcome is reduced skill, ability etc.