1 million subscribers

[Alhanelem]

It's kinda silly to assume an mmo would have more players now than it did last march honestly anyway, that's not how these games work. Even if it makes people feel better to think it is, it's just not reality.

I'm not sure what exactly you find about it that's silly. Also their total subscribers did increase unless you want to tell me that he didn't just get new numbers and instead just made them up. So unless he's just flat out lying, it actually IS reality.

The fact you're being so general about MMO populations is also silly- If a game does well, of course its population will increase. Unless the game is bad, it is not at all reasonable to see a game's potential peak population more than a year out. I don't think WoW peaked until a couple years in. I dn't know why people "feel" anything about the numbers. They're just numbers, and while they're interesting to look at, it's really not that important. There are too many MMOs out there for them to all have several million subscribers (p2p) or active accounts (f2p). To make a decision about what game you're going to play based on sales or population statistics or to judge it based on them is beyond silly. I've played many fun MMOs with smaller total populations than XI.

While that nearly or over 1 million number doesn't sound high, It's still higher than a pretty long list of MMOs to have come out in the last several years.

So just for funsies, I'll take a stab at the original question. Let's be a little generous and assume that "over 1 million" means 1.1 million total subscribers to SE MMOs. My breakdown would be:

30k DQXO (This game is only avialable in Japan and South Korea)
70k FFXI (possibly generous, taking current concurrent users and multiplying it since not all players are active at the same time or play everyday, plus mule accounts)
~1m FFXIV (They were prolcaiming over 3.2 million "players" on the Lodestone at one point, assuming that number is accounts created, I don't think a sub conversion rate of one third is overly generous)

XIV is also approaching its first expansion in 3-4 months, and as with any MMO that will trigger a number of resubs and new accounts.

[Pixela]

I'm not sure what exactly you find about it that's silly. Also their total subscribers did increase unless you want to tell me that he didn't just get new numbers and instead just made them up. So unless he's just flat out lying, it actually IS reality.

The fact you're being so general about MMO populations is also silly- If a game does well, of course its population will increase. Unless the game is bad, it is not at all reasonable to see a game's potential peak population more than a year out. I don't think WoW peaked until a couple years in. I dn't know why people "feel" anything about the numbers. They're just numbers, and while they're interesting to look at, it's really not that important. There are too many MMOs out there for them to all have several million subscribers (p2p) or active accounts (f2p). To make a decision about what game you're going to play based on sales or population statistics or to judge it based on them is beyond silly. I've played many fun MMOs with smaller total populations than XI.

While that nearly or over 1 million number doesn't sound high, It's still higher than a pretty long list of MMOs to have come out in the last several years.

MMO populations simply don't increase this way and not by silly large numbers as people seem to be implying (yes, even if they are good) even if they add lots of new content and expansions. Modern mmo players get bored quick and leave an mmo at a faster rate than new ones join, there is simply way too much competition these days.

A film doesn't make more money a year later than it did at launch, a game like destiny or Assassins Creed Unity don't sell better after free dlc and patches than it did during launch and an mmo doesn't have more players a year later.

Square said a while back that DQXO had 300k subs, and FFXIV had 500k. If FFXIV really did have a large increase they would of said it because there is a huge amount of prestige in doing something that difficult in the modern mmo world, especially in one that is linked to their most important franchise.

[Alhanelem]

MMO populations simply don't increase this way and not by silly large numbers as people seem to be implying

Within an MMOs first year ( or longer if it's really successful) yes, they do indeed increase that way, unless the game is a flop.

Also, we aren't talking about "silly large numbers here." They suggested a modest increase ("nearly 1 million" to "over 1 million." I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that we're exaggerating the numbers or misinterpreting them.

Square said a while back that DQXO had 300k subs, and FFXIV had 500k.

FFXI never had 500k subscribers. They had 500k ACCOUNTS, and that was several years ago. There is no way DQXO has 300k active subs. FFXIV has more servers than both games combined and there are easily thousands on each compared to several hundred on the XI servers. A simple search of each zone will reveal that (cant /sea all it doesn't give a total number), and that doesn't count the number of people in instances (which is a lot since its a heavily instance based game)

DQX is only available in a very localized area so I'm pretty confident that "300k" is accounts not subs as well. as previously mentioned, the last time the numbers were given FFXIV had at least 3.2 million accounts.

So if you want to (insert negative verb here) on FFXIV, at least use current data and understand what data you're using when you do it.

Many have the mindset that XIV is a juggernaut and XI doesn't really matter anymore

While XIV almost certainly is a juggernaut compared to the other two games in terms of the share of that statistic, as long as the games are profitable, they are all benefitting SE's bottom line and should all be considered "important."

I guess you must hate XIV or something- it barely takes 5 minutes of playing it to see that there are far more players on each server than in XI. then you can go peruse the server list here: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/worldstatus/

[Pixela]

Within an MMOs first year ( or longer if it's really successful) yes, they do indeed increase that way, unless the game is a flop.

Also, we aren't talking about "silly large numbers here." They suggested a modest increase ("nearly 1 million" to "over 1 million." I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that we're exaggerating the numbers or misinterpreting them.

FFXI never had 500k subscribers. They had 500k ACCOUNTS, and that was several years ago. There is no way DQXO has 300k active subs. FFXIV has more servers than both games combined and there are easily thousands on each compared to several hundred on the XI servers. A simple search of each zone will reveal that (cant /sea all it doesn't give a total number), and that doesn't count the number of people in instances (which is a lot since its a heavily instance based game)

DQX is only available in a very localized area so I'm pretty confident that "300k" is accounts not subs as well. as previously mentioned, the last time the numbers were given FFXIV had at least 3.2 million accounts.

So if you want to (insert negative verb here) on FFXIV, at least use current data and understand what data you're using when you do it.

While XIV almost certainly is a juggernaut compared to the other two games in terms of the share of that statistic, as long as the games are profitable, they are all benefitting SE's bottom line and should all be considered "important."

They said all 3 mmo titles combined had around 1 million. Also please tell me any mmo released in the last 5 years that has gained subscribers over a 1 year period, it just doesn't happen and you can't name one. MMO titles have player retention issues because of massive competition and lots of new titles and as such it's a decrease over time, the success of a title is how fast or slow the decrease is.

If you think Square are not liars then DQXO had 300k subscribers and FFXI did have 500k SUBSCRIBERS (FFXIV barely beat the best FFXI managed but cost vastly more to create so FFXI will always remain the most profitable FF title ever). If you're going to argue this much you should go check your facts.

Please don't go linking servers, most of those servers are very quiet and let's not forget that SWG had 4 times as many servers. You don't count servers, you count the words from Square themselves.

As I said, FFXIV is a moderate success (and if you calculate in the massive losses from v1, not even that) but FFXI and DQ are both still huge money makers which makes them very important to Square and will be supported for many many years to come. Which is good news!

[Alhanelem]

"They said all 3 mmo titles combined had around 1 million." They said in their march 2014 financial report that they had "nearly 1 million." They later stated in one of the linked articles above that they now have "over 1 million." That by itself implies an increase. Are you trying to suggest that DQX and FFXI are responsible for that increase and not FFXIV?

Also please tell me any mmo released in the last 5 years that has gained subscribers over a 1 year period, it just doesn't happen and you can't name one

Every MMO starts with zero players, therefore every MMO gains subscribers over its first year period, unless it doesn't last that long. If you want to skip past the first initial influx, I'm willing to bet that most MMOs that did not die (either outright or essentially) within that year saw an increase from their first month at the end of their year. XIV had been out for maybe 4 months when SE likely began to compile the data for its financial report (which, if you look at how elaborate the report is, it probably took weeks to create with all the data finalized). Considering that it has been successful enough to have not just one but three fan events, something that XI never had, I'd say the odds are pretty damn good that there was an increase between then and now.

On my server in XIV, I can find more people in one zone than Shiva on XI has in both of the game's most populous cities (which comprise several zones) combined, and that number by itself represents around a third of shiva's population.

If you'd like, I'll continue counting up the players to show you how much whatsit your argument is full of.

Please don't go linking servers, most of those servers are very quiet and let's not forget that SWG had 4 times as many servers. You don't count servers, you count the words from Square themselves.

Dude, you're talking out your behind. "most of those servers are very quiet?" No, they're not. SE closes servers to character creation when they have too many people online. There are more servers closed to character creation at this very moment than XI has period.

I'm really not sure how you're deluding yourself into thinking that DQX and FFXI are more successful than FFXIV, but whatever you're taking to make yourself feel that way, I want some of it!

If you search in XIV, you can look in each of 8 different regions (the three city regions, and the 5 field regions) On my server all of them except one return well over 200 users, that's 1600 players not counting the ones that are in instances (which can't be searched directly), and this isn't even prime time. Every single Legacy world is like that, and many others are as well. Additionally, 16 worlds are currently locked to character creation, and this isn't really a peak time for either the JP or NA datacenters.

/sea all in Shiva/XI just turned up 705 players for me. Hyperion/XIV I'm still adding it up as you can't /sea all but my estimate is probably not to far off (again excluding players in instances)

Clearly you don't play the game since you really don't have the slightest idea how many people are on a server.

So please, keep telling yourself DQX and XI have the lion's share of players. Don't get me wrong. I love XI and I'm sure DQX is great too. I wouldn't be here posting if I didn't have an FFXI sub. But you really need to face facts.

Your comments just have so much fanboyism injected in them... I literally am playing both games at the same time right now. I think that's a pretty good indication I like them both and can look at them objectively. So I'm going to stop things here and let the other people reading this stuff decide.

[Pixela]

Every MMO starts with zero players, therefore every MMO gains subscribers over its first year period, unless it doesn't last that long. If you want to skip past the first initial influx, I'm willing to bet that most MMOs that did not die (either outright or essentially) within that year saw an increase from their first month at the end of their year. XIV had been out for maybe 4 months when SE likely began to compile the data for its financial report (which, if you look at how elaborate the report is, it probably took weeks to create with all the data finalized). Considering that it has been successful enough to have not just one but three fan events, something that XI never had, I'd say the odds are pretty damn good that there was an increase between then and now.

On my server in XIV, I can find more people in one zone than Shiva on XI has in both of the game's most populous cities (which comprise several zones) combined, and that number by itself represents around a third of shiva's population.

If you'd like, I'll continue counting up the players to show you how much whatsit your argument is full of.

I'm glad you agree with me that no mmo would have more players a year later (I'm assuming you agree since you posted pretty much nothing to argue against it). Did you really try to make an argument about an mmo starts with 0?..

The truth is that FFXI has a way to count total servers players, FFXIV does not. Of course FFXIV has more players than FFXI though, nobody ever argued anything else because it's 12? years old now (I already said an mmo loses players as it ages). You just got upset that I pointed out it's not a juggernaut and simply a modest success. Is that so horrible for you to hear? FFXIV is currently doing as well as FFXI did when it was new, just a pity it cost such a vast amount more to make...

Dude, you're talking out your behind. "most of those servers are very quiet?" No, they're not. SE closes servers to character creation when they have too many people online. There are more servers closed to character creation at this very moment than XI has period.

I'm really not sure how you're deluding yourself into thinking that DQX and FFXI are more successful than FFXIV, but whatever you're taking to make yourself feel that way, I want some of it!

If you search in XIV, you can look in each of 8 different regions (the three city regions, and the 5 field regions) On my server all of them except one return well over 200 users, that's 1600 players not counting the ones that are in instances (which can't be searched directly), and this isn't even prime time. Every single Legacy world is like that, and many others are as well. Additionally, 16 worlds are currently locked to character creation, and this isn't really a peak time for either the JP or NA datacenters.

/sea all in Shiva/XI just turned up 705 players for me. Hyperion/XIV I'm still adding it up as you can't /sea all but my estimate is probably not to far off (again excluding players in instances)

Clearly you don't play the game since you really don't have the slightest idea how many people are on a server.

So please, keep telling yourself DQX and XI have the lion's share of players. Don't get me wrong. I love XI and I'm sure DQX is great too. I wouldn't be here posting if I didn't have an FFXI sub. But you really need to face facts.

Your comments just have so much fanboyism injected in them... I literally am playing both games at the same time right now. I think that's a pretty good indication I like them both and can look at them objectively. So I'm going to stop things here and let the other people reading this stuff decide.

Yes, most of those servers are very quiet. Most people want to transfer to the few busy servers which causes congestion on those few servers, this isn't news to anyone that actually plays the game and wants to be truthful. Is this really that hard to understand?! o.O

You seem to be taking this oh so personally and I'm not sure why, even going to the point of trying to give peak numbers form one game to off-peak in another XD

As I said in the OP, FFXIV probably has around 400-500k, DQ probably around 300k and FFXI has around 100-200k. I'm just telling it like it is and what the CEO told us all last week.

It's good news to post on the FFXI forum, FFXI is still a major money maker and still makes up a large share of their monthly paying users. Many think FFXIV is massive, but it's not and that's good news for us XI players because it means we are still very important to the company.

[Alhanelem]

I'm glad you agree with me that no mmo would have more players a year later (I'm assuming you agree since you posted pretty much nothing to argue against it). Did you really try to make an argument about an mmo starts with 0?..

If you think that quotation constitutes an agreement of any kind, well, I can't really say what I'd like to say because it would be against the forum rules, but you're wrong.

Yes, all MMOs start with 0. All games of all time start with 0. There's no players until somebody buys it. I also explicitly stated that we can skip past the initial sales if you want, but seems like you ignored that.

Yes, most of those servers are very quiet. Most people want to transfer to the few busy servers which causes congestion on those few servers, this isn't news to anyone that actually plays the game and wants to be truthful. Is this really that hard to understand?! o.O

False. Everyone wants to move to the most populated server even if their own server has plenty of players on it. It happens in every MMO ever.

You seem to be taking this oh so personally and I'm not sure why, even going to the point of trying to give peak numbers form one game to off-peak in another XD

I'm not taking this personally, but you are twisting some vague numbers to mean whatever the hell you want them to mean and not presenting any actual truth. Any numbers brought up, you respond with vague statements.

As I said in the OP, FFXIV probably has around 400-500k, DQ probably around 300k and FFXI has around 100-200k. I'm just telling it like it is and what the CEO told us all last week.

You're not "telling it like it is." You're just making up numbers. The closest I could possibly come to agreeing with anything in that statement is the notion that DQX might have more players than XI. That's possible, but I'm also considering the fact that XI has a worldwide release where as DQX is only available in two countries.

FFXI does not have 100-200k active subscriptions. Unlike with the other two games, its pretty easy to make a ballpark estimate based on concurrent users. There is no way to bend or twist XI's active subscribers to that kind of a number.

You see, there's a confusion here between "subscribers" and "accounts." Accounts is everyone who's ever bought the game and played it for any amount of time. Subscribers are currently paying customers. That is, total accounts minus accounts with no active subscription. A couple years after its release, XI bragged about having 500,000 players, which was later revealed to be accounts, not subscribers. XIV's lodestone at one point proclaimed 2.5 million players (again, not subscribers) Actual subscribers would probably half that at best, more likely 25-33%. DQX we don't really have much info on. please do cite this article where SE can be quoted as saying that game has 300,000 *subscribers* (not accounts). Back up your vague claims with verifiable sources. I at least came up with ballpark figures by counting up the people I actually see playing in the game.

Remember, subscribers, not accounts. The CEO in both cases of stating "1 million" referred to subscribers (because that's what's giving them money). make sure that whatever numbers you're pulling refer to subscribers.

[Pixela]

If you think that quotation constitutes an agreement of any kind, well, I can't really say what I'd like to say because it would be against the forum rules, but you're wrong.

Yes, all MMOs start with 0. All games of all time start with 0. There's no players until somebody buys it. I also explicitly stated that we can skip past the initial sales if you want, but seems like you ignored that.

Well I assume you agreed because you had no counter to my post and just posted pretty much nothing.

As I said, no modern MMO grows its sub base and you can't put any valid argument against me. So aside from what you seem to specialise in (just posting WORDS) I see no other conclusion.

False. Everyone wants to move to the most populated server even if their own server has plenty of players on it. It happens in every MMO ever.

It's not false, it's fact but you don't like it so it just becomes false XD There are very many underpopulated servers and a few over populated ones. Have you even tried to play on some of the JP servers? They are really low pop.

I'm not taking this personally, but you are twisting some vague numbers to mean whatever the hell you want them to mean and not presenting any actual truth. Any numbers brought up, you respond with vague statements.

I'm not twisting numbers, you are. When I call you out on your rubbish numbers you totally ignore it from that point on because you know you're wrong. Also stop stating vague numbers when the CEO of the company stated them to share holders and the media. You not liking them does not equal to "twisting vague numbers". All numbers I have given have been stated in financial reports, media reports and CEO statements.

You're not "telling it like it is." You're just making up numbers. The closest I could possibly come to agreeing with anything in that statement is the notion that DQX might have more players than XI. That's possible, but I'm also considering the fact that XI has a worldwide release where as DQX is only available in two countries.

FFXI does not have 100-200k active subscriptions. Unlike with the other two games, its pretty easy to make a ballpark estimate based on concurrent users. There is no way to bend or twist XI's active subscribers to that kind of a number.

The rock solid numbers are all 3 MMO titles have 1 million combined, that DQx has around 300k and that FFXI has around 100-150k players. That leaves 500-600k for FFXIV.

FFXI very much could (and probably does have) have 100-200k subs, keep in mind that FFXI servers are worldwide so has many peaks to count and FFXIV is regional so only has one peak. unless you think just over 6k subscribers per FFXI server is crazy and out of reality? I doubt many others would agree since as I said there are NA peak, JP peak and EU peak to count and they don't all play at the same time either.

As I say, to have a basic idea of a FFXI server population you have to count player numbers at each prime time (you know, those crazy worldwide servers) and then you still don't have a good number because a lot of players don't play every day or are subbed but not currently playing.

That is, total accounts minus accounts with no active subscription. A couple years after its release, XI bragged about having 500,000 players, which was later revealed to be accounts, not subscribers. XIV's lodestone at one point proclaimed 2.5 million players (again, not subscribers) Actual subscribers would probably half that at best, more likely 25-33%. DQX we don't really have much info on. please do cite this article where SE can be quoted as saying that game has 300,000 *subscribers* (not accounts). Back up your vague claims with verifiable sources. I at least came up with ballpark figures by counting up the people I actually see playing in the game.

I'm counting subscribers, not accounts. FFXI peaked at 500k subscribers and DQ at 300k (and the fact this game has 300k subs for one region says a lot about XIV), these numbers are really easy to find in official announcements so I'm not sure why you're arguing against them at all.

[Alhanelem]

As I said, no modern MMO grows its sub base and you can't put any valid argument against me.

Every modern MMO grows its sub base for some amount of time, and you can't just dismiss any argument you dont like as not valid. Every MMO had to start from somewhere. They didn't have their thousands or millions of subscribers the very first second of release. Depending on how successful that MMO is, it may grow for a short time or it may gro from longer. The point is, every population curve starts at 0, increases up to a certain peak over some period of time, and then eventually declines.

It's not false, it's fact but you don't like it so it just becomes false XD There are very many underpopulated servers and a few over populated ones. Have you even tried to play on some of the JP servers? They are really low pop.

It's not a fact because you have no data. There is no data, no statistics have been provided by anyone other than subjective comments.

FFXI peaked at 500k subscribers

that was accounts, not subscribers.

and DQ at 300k

You still havent posted a source that explcitly states this.

(and the fact this game has 300k subs for one region says a lot about XIV)

You can't infer anything whatsoever about XIV from that comment one way or another.

these numbers are really easy to find in official announcements so I'm not sure why you're arguing against them at all.

If they're so easy to find you should have no problem posting your sources.

I'm not twisting numbers, you are. When I call you out on your rubbish numbers you totally ignore it from that point on because you know you're wrong.

I havent posted any rubbish numbers. The only numbers I've given (that I didn't explicitly state as guesses) were the two numbers given by the CEO ("nearly 1 million" in the 2014 financial report, and the article linked earlier in the thread where it was said "over 1 million").

As I say, to have a basic idea of a FFXI server population you have to count player numbers at each prime time

I'm aware of this and factored that in (all times, actually- not just prime times.)

You're just making baseless attacks and not backing up what you say with sources. You also talk like you are some kind of authority figure and that everyone should just believe what you say without question because since you said it, it must be fact!

When you stop pulling numbers out of nowhere and post actual links to actual reliable sources, then maybe people reading this can take it with something less than a giant mountain of salt.

Your next post better contain some good links to good sources.

[Pixela]

It's not a fact because you have no data.

All 3 games combined have 1 million subscribers, this is according to the CEO of the company.

FFXI peaked at 500k subscribers (FINAL FANTASY XI has a robust community of 500,000 subscribers and more than 1.7 million player characters).

DQ peaked at 300k subscribers from an interview in 2013 with the director of that game.

I can link them but why should I baby feed you? Go google it yourself.

You can't infer anything whatsoever about XIV from that comment one way or another.

Well if one MMO has 300k for one region and another has around 500-600k for the world I kinda can.

I'm aware of this and factored that in (all times, actually- not just prime times.)

You're just making baseless attacks and not backing up what you say with sources.

Sure you did XD So are you saying that 6k subscribers per FFXI server is out of the realms of possibility? Given they are worldwide and that many players only play on certain days etc.

I'm not making attacks, I'm simply stating numbers. Just because you don't like them does not make my post attacks lol