dagger ws too OP?

[Camiie]

WAR and DRK may not be God-tier, but I've never been turned away from any current events on WAR nor seen it happen to any other WARs or DRKs. Conversely I've never seen anyone care about steps or anything else a DNC/BST/NIN brings.

BLU has been utilized yes, even before the update. I guess that means they didn't need any boosts? And yes I'll give you that THFs have been wanted for TH, but they've had to pay a huge price for that ability in the name of "balance." Now SE is finally lowering that price and people are losing their shit. I guess people want THFs to go back to the old days where they were only allowed to poke the HNM du jour once and then go hide in a corner.

[Afania]

WAR and DRK may not be God-tier, but I've never been turned away from any current events on WAR nor seen it happen to any other WARs or DRKs. Conversely I've never seen anyone care about steps or anything else a DNC/BST/NIN brings.

BLU has been utilized yes, even before the update. I guess that means they didn't need any boosts? And yes I'll give you that THFs have been wanted for TH, but they've had to pay a huge price for that ability in the name of "balance." Now SE is finally lowering that price and people are losing their shit. I guess people want THFs to go back to the old days where they were only allowed to poke the HNM du jour once and then go hide in a corner.

AFAIK ppl with DRK WAR SAM leveled, they're on SAM 100% assuming all jobs equally geared and no personal preference toward 1 specific job. Ppl with THF SAM leveled, they can play both. Personally, I haven't seen many DRK WAR in endgame event since fudo update.

The reason why nobody cares about steps is probably it's harder to find a decent DNC, and it's much easier to /shout for a SAM. That doesn't mean steps suck.

I really don't understand though, you play WAR, and you'd rather let DNC THF pwn WAR all over and still be fine with it. I'm fine with BLU being 2nd tier DD, but if I'm a WAR I wouldn't be happy with WAR being 2nd tier.

[PlumbGame]

AFAIK ppl with DRK WAR SAM leveled, they're on SAM 100% assuming all jobs equally geared and no personal preference toward 1 specific job. Ppl with THF SAM leveled, they can play both. Personally, I haven't seen many DRK WAR in endgame event since fudo update.

The reason why nobody cares about steps is probably it's harder to find a decent DNC, and it's much easier to /shout for a SAM. That doesn't mean steps suck.

I really don't understand though, you play WAR, and you'd rather let DNC THF pwn WAR all over and still be fine with it. I'm fine with BLU being 2nd tier DD, but if I'm a WAR I wouldn't be happy with WAR being 2nd tier.

But by your own arguments earlier, WAR shouldn't be buffed, because they have warcry, and that brings something beneficial to the party, so therefore they shouldn't be doing significant amounts of dmg.

Really though I think thf is probably one of the most played jobs in FFXI now and days. I don't know why they would buff it and not really other jobs right now, but that could be a reason. I'm just hoping this buff is in the right direction and other DD jobs get buffed up to equivalent levels. Realistically, every DD job should be similar on damage, even though SE doesn't want to do that.

Also, lol at BLU being 2nd tier.

[Afania]

But by your own arguments earlier, WAR shouldn't be buffed, because they have warcry, and that brings something beneficial to the party, so therefore they shouldn't be doing significant amounts of dmg.

The real question is, does war cry make up the gap between WAR and SAM? Yes? Invite the WAR. No? No invite for WAR.

Also, lol at BLU being 2nd tier.

BLU was definitely 2nd tier before CDC update, behind SAM, which was the 1st tier. Not sure why'd it need that much dmg when it can already do a lot more than just dmg.

At the top end of the spectrum, with nice gear and nice buffs, SAM still beats THF and the difference is not huge. Effective use of skillchains and SA+TA can make THF the best DD in the game, poor use of skillchains or SA/TA will cause it to lag behind other equally geared DD. I see nothing wrong with this

It is wrong because THF already guarantee a pt slot, while certain jobs don't.

I have WAR and SAM leveled and geared and it's my call which I come as. My friend has DRK and was never turned away when a DD was needed either. Is SAM better? Sure. Is WAR plenty good for anything that needs a DD? It is. The same couldn't be said for the 1-hander DDs before the update and some of them still don't have a spot even now.

Personal experience, that has nothing to do with job balance. I've joined incursion/delve pt on BLU before the update, my THF friend have joined delve/incursion pt before the update. We still do more dmg than 95% of PUG SAM.

If you want to use personal experience such as "I got invite np, thus I don't care if THF DNC is competing for the pt slot", I can do the same....I got invite np before the update, thus BLU and THF were just fine.

Yeah you really don't understand. I don't want the DDs to be tiered at all. I don't want it to matter one bit which melee job one brings. I want my WAR and someone else's THF to be on the same level without either of us being dragged downward.

If THF can do exactly the same dmg as WAR, I'd just invite a THF instead of WAR to incursion and delve. More airlixir without sacrificing the kill speed, why not.

You're the one that really don't understand, unless SE disable TH, it's simply not possible to accomplish true job balance. We're still going to pick DDs, in this case we're going to pick a DD that can do top dmg AND give more drops.

[Nebo]

If THF can do exactly the same dmg as WAR, I'd just invite a THF instead of WAR to incursion and delve. More airlixir without sacrificing the kill speed, why not.

You're the one that really don't understand, unless SE disable TH, it's simply not possible to accomplish true job balance. We're still going to pick DDs, in this case we're going to pick a DD that can do top dmg AND give more drops.

If THF can do similar dmage as WAR, you have the option to invite your friend, that actually enjoys playing a job instead of forcing him to go SAM/WAR/MNK/BRD/WHM or GTFO.

If its not a DPS crutch, he can come what he likes. You don't actually need a THF for TH and you are overselling the value of Main THF TH here by quite a lot...especially beyond TH2..which every job can get without sub and jobs like RNG can bring with bounty shot. And even if what you are saying here was a valid concern (hint: its not)...you wouldn't stack THFs for drops. You only need one for TH

The real point is this: If a THF is at lolDPS status, then its not an option. It's not a job. Its 3 pieces of gear. Now your friend CANNOT come THF to this event because TH mules come out.

[Afania]

If THF can do similar dmage as WAR, you have the option to invite your friend, that actually enjoys playing a job instead of forcing him to go SAM/WAR/MNK/BRD/WHM or GTFO.

If its not a DPS crutch, he can come what he likes. You don't actually need a THF for TH and you are overselling the value of Main THF TH here by quite a lot...especially beyond TH2..which every job can get without sub and jobs like RNG can bring with bounty shot. And even what you are saying here was a valid concern...you wouldn;t stack THFs for drops. You only need one for TH

The real point is this: If a THF is at lolDPS status, then its not an option. It's not a job. Its 3 pieces of gear. Now your friend CANNOT come THF to this event because TH mules come out.

THF was still a viable DD before this update, and TH is a nice bonus that worth the sacrifice of some DPS. I've used THF in none yorcia delve and I didn't notice a huge difference between a THF and a none SAM DD.

With this update there are no reason to use a none SAM DD over THF anymore. Even before the update it wasn't a 3 pieces of gear job.

If THF can do similar dmage as WAR, you have the option to invite your friend, that actually enjoys playing a job instead of forcing him to go SAM/WAR/MNK/BRD/WHM or GTFO.

You get it all wrong, if a THF can do same dmg as WAR, anyone with THF and WAR equally geared would have to play THF, unless the target resists piercing or unless that person has personal preference toward 1 specific job. Nothing has changed.

Further more, according to what Comeatmebro just said, dagger jobs > WAR DRK now. Balance.

[Nebo]

You get it all wrong, if a THF can do same dmg as WAR, anyone with THF and WAR equally geared would have to play THF, unless the target resists piercing or unless that person has personal preference toward 1 specific job. Nothing has changed.

You are the one getting it all wrong lol. There is no reason to force anyone to come THF. You don't need a THF at all to get meaningful TH levels. If your group leader doesnt understand how useless high TH levels are, you don't need more than one THF to get THF main level TH.

This is also glancing over all the events where TH is not relevant...and the only other thing of value a THF can possibly bring is damage.

I don't understand. Are you saying you only ever bring one DD to events? Or that One hand jobs getting a DPS boost that they desperately needed somehow invalidates 2 Hander DD?

[Camiie]

AFAIK ppl with DRK WAR SAM leveled, they're on SAM 100% assuming all jobs equally geared and no personal preference toward 1 specific job. Ppl with THF SAM leveled, they can play both. Personally, I haven't seen many DRK WAR in endgame event since fudo update.

I have WAR and SAM leveled and geared and it's my call which I come as. My friend has DRK and was never turned away when a DD was needed either. Is SAM better? Sure. Is WAR plenty good for anything that needs a DD? It is. The same couldn't be said for the 1-hander DDs before the update and some of them still don't have a spot even now. The drop off from WAR and DRK to the 1-handers was more substantial than the drop off from SAM to WAR and DRK. And that's not even taking MNK into account.

The reason why nobody cares about steps is probably it's harder to find a decent DNC, and it's much easier to /shout for a SAM. That doesn't mean steps suck.

Oh here we go... Now you're going to tell us that there's never been a problem with DNC as a job, it's just that only 3 people in the entire world know how to play it right. /sigh If it's so hard to squeeze damage out of the job that only a select few can figure out how to do it, then don't you think that is a sign of a big problem?

I really don't understand though, you play WAR, and you'd rather let DNC THF pwn WAR all over and still be fine with it. I'm fine with BLU being 2nd tier DD, but if I'm a WAR I wouldn't be happy with WAR being 2nd tier.

Yeah you really don't understand. I don't want the DDs to be tiered at all. I don't want it to matter one bit which melee job one brings. I want my WAR and someone else's THF to be on the same level without either of us being dragged downward.

[Olor]

Yeah you really don't understand. I don't want the DDs to be tiered at all. I don't want it to matter one bit which melee job one brings. I want my WAR and someone else's THF to be on the same level without either of us being dragged downward.

Amen. Seriously this.

[dasva]

AFAIK ppl with DRK WAR SAM leveled, they're on SAM 100% assuming all jobs equally geared and no personal preference toward 1 specific job. Ppl with THF SAM leveled, they can play both. Personally, I haven't seen many DRK WAR in endgame event since fudo update.
.

I would say it had more to do with the skillchain dmg update. That was an insane game changer especially since not only is sam the easiest job to get tp fast enough to keep wsing in time but it's the only job that has a ws of each of the 4 lvl 2 elements making them the only ones that can do the whole 5 stepping thing for massive dmg that can't be resisted anymore