dagger ws too OP?

[Afania]

IMO it's just wrong to buff Fudo to OP level, then buff Rudra to OP lv, what's next? Our dmg just go up infinitely without the need to increase ilv.

1h DD shouldn't be on par/beat 2h DD as well. Almost all the 1h DD job offers something more than dealing dmg, what does 2h DD offer besides DRG's angon and DRK's stun?

I vote for a nerf, yeah.

[PlumbGame]

i dont mind SE upping the damage, but they need to tone down rundras storm. no point going to a reive when u got a bunch of thfs spamming rs for that much dmg. time and a place for that kind of dmg and reives arent the time or place for a number of reasons. and i might point out that this is gonna get a lot of ppl pissed at thfs doing so too. its gonna be like back in the day when everybody would get pissed when a bst came around to level or skill.

No point in going to a reive? Are you trying to solo the reive? Because I don't know about you but when I got to a reive I try to kill it as fast as I can and gtfo with my loot.

[Zeargi]

To be truthful, the 25k Rudra's are also a combo of Gear swaps in most cases. Also 25k of dmg to what? The roots or other Mobs in that reive, because that shouldn't be a good gauge. I mean my SMN can do 5k with Retribution and 11k with Volt Strike with a level 115 Avatar(Not constantly, but between 9-11.5.)

[jbtexan]

read my earlier posts on this thread. i was talking about wildkeeper reives and bosses.

[Byrth]

WKRs are kind of a bad example because they have crap for defense and actually take extra damage at high colonization rates (which are essentially a constant now). IIRC my summoner can pump out ~10 13k Heavenly Strikes in under a minute with SP abilities and other JAs.

[Ulth]

IMO it's just wrong to buff Fudo to OP level, then buff Rudra to OP lv, what's next? Our dmg just go up infinitely without the need to increase ilv.

1h DD shouldn't be on par/beat 2h DD as well. Almost all the 1h DD job offers something more than dealing dmg, what does 2h DD offer besides DRG's angon and DRK's stun?

I vote for a nerf, yeah.

You would have a valid point if the jobs that use those weapons skills did bring something to the table other than damage. And no Treasure Hunter doesn't count. Thf's enmity control flat out doesn't work, I honestly get more use out of flash than accomplish and collaborator. As for dancer I don't know for sure but I remember seeing Bryth post something about how little steps matter when they changed the timers to 5 seconds, and he knows his dancer. Bards can use rudra's too, but they aren't dropping 25k+ weapons skills. It's almost like what makes that weapons skill good is a unique ability of thf and dnc. Also can't help but notice the lack of outrage for the buff to one handed sword weaponskills, even though you claim that one handed jobs shouldn't beat out two handed. I guess that doesn't matter for your favorite job blu.

[dasva]

Also you shouldn't be comparing ws dmgs of 1 ws at effectively 2000+ tp to other ws at 1000+ while claiming the guy doing 2000 tp ws is "spamming"

[Selindrile]

Spamming is a bad word for it, admittedly, and I'm not actually calling for a nerf, that said, Thfs _ARE_ outparsing any other similarly geared player on another job at least in pretty much every event I've been to lately.

That's not to say I'm complaining, I enjoy the positioning and timing mechanics it encourages in party play as was pointed out earlier, and Thf and more importantly Dnc one could say deserve this buff after being underdogs for so long.

[Camiie]

IMO it's just wrong to buff Fudo to OP level, then buff Rudra to OP lv, what's next? Our dmg just go up infinitely without the need to increase ilv.

1h DD shouldn't be on par/beat 2h DD as well. Almost all the 1h DD job offers something more than dealing dmg, what does 2h DD offer besides DRG's angon and DRK's stun?

I vote for a nerf, yeah.

You say 1h DD bring other things to the table, but what you're not getting is that those things must have value to matter. No party leader cares about hate control, haste samba, waltzes, or pets because none of these things help in current content. I truly wish that weren't the case, but reality is reality. Their utility wasn't being utilized so they had to be given something beneficial that mattered. Damage is surely that.

[Afania]

I guess that doesn't matter for your favorite job blu.

I like BLU, but I'd rather play a game with good job variety and balance, not a game with a few OP jobs that completely pwns all other jobs, even if those OP jobs are my favorite jobs. In the case of BLU, it's completely different from other DD, so that's job variety. Due to the versatility it has, it shouldn't outparse other DD jobs, that's balance.

Good game design and job balance > My personal job preference.

You would have a valid point if the jobs that use those weapons skills did bring something to the table other than damage. And no Treasure Hunter doesn't count.

Treasure hunter doesn't count, treasure hunter doesn't count. Everytime when we have a DD hierarchy discussion, and we talk about how useful THF are because it's used in dyna/incursion/all higher tier BC, the only reply we got was "treasure hunter doesn't count, THF dmg suck, buff THF dmg plz". I don't understand, what makes TH doesn't count?

Since THF is already used for TH(which is an undeniable fact), it wouldn't make sense if THF can parse high AND TH.

As for dancer I don't know for sure but I remember seeing Bryth post something about how little steps matter when they changed the timers to 5 seconds, and he knows his dancer.

I think you misunderstood??? If anything changing step to 5 sec recast is an improvement, not a nerf. You can reach 23% def down faster, thus it's higher avg def down(and higher pt output over all).

I haven't check spreadsheet for a while, and I don't have access to them atm, so I can't post numbers just yet.....but last time when I checked, if I remember correctly, 23% def down+ the dmg from DNC and 2 other DD> 3 DD, unless your attack is capped.

Now that DNC probably beats most of the weaker 2h DD such as WAR, which is just too OP period.

You say 1h DD bring other things to the table, but what you're not getting is that those things must have value to matter. No party leader cares about hate control, haste samba, waltzes, or pets because none of these things help in current content. I truly wish that weren't the case, but reality is reality. Their utility wasn't being utilized so they had to be given something beneficial that mattered. Damage is surely that.

No pt leader cares about hate control, but they care about TH. Again, I love how ppl purposely filter out the benefit of TH when we talk about THF, so they feel like making THF stronger than WAR is legit.

Nobody cares about haste samba and waltz, but def down from steps does matter.

Those really makes a difference, and the reality is DRK WAR suck, there are no reason to use them in an event since they're not strong enough, and they can't step like DNC, TH like THF, nor sleep/terror/cure/haste/defense down like BLU.

That is not balance, that's bad design.