dagger ws too OP?

[Crevox]

Well, I've been doing Delve, Incursion, battlefields, unity fights, walk of echoes, and more since the update. Since then it's been a lot of thieves, and from my experiences with all of them, what I said is true. You may have a different view and opinion, but so far, that's been my experience.

[FrankReynolds]

Well, I've been doing Delve, Incursion, battlefields, unity fights, walk of echoes, and more since the update. Since then it's been a lot of thieves, and from my experiences with all of them, what I said is true. You may have a different view and opinion, but so far, that's been my experience.

It's math man. Thieves aren't capable of that much more damage (if any) than samurais. It's not an opinion. It's a fact. Things die just as fast without a thief. Nothing has changed except the job that people are on when they do the content. Anything beyond that is in your head.

[Crevox]

I have seen the math the other way around too. See how that works?

You are entitled to your own opinion and I am to mine. I've made my opinion on the matter clear, so that's all I needed to say.

[FrankReynolds]

I have seen the math the other way around too. See how that works?

No. Math doesn't work that way. You are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own math.

[Byrth]

I have 291 DEX in my Rudra's Storm set, which gives me about 340 base damage. It has about 10.45 fTP at 1250 TP (Moonshade) including offhand and additional attacks for me (no AM3). This gives it 3553*pDIF damage.

Assuming SAM has 300 STR in their Tachi: Fudo set and is using Kogarasumaru, about 490 base damage. It has about 5.5 fTP at 1250 TP (Moonshade) including additional attacks (AM3). This gives it 3207*pDIF damage with Overwhelm.

So in terms of raw damage, Rudra's should actually do more damage than Tachi: Fudo if used at 1000 TP unstacked. However if you remember back to the YGK days, SAM's main strategic advantage was their high WS rate, multiple skillchain properties, and the attack bonus on their important WSs. Fudo lacks that attack bonus, but the job still pumps out WSs and now also has Skillchain Bonus.

[Crevox]

No. Math doesn't work that way. You are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own math.

You and the other people liking your posts should actually do the math instead of just saying so. You're all in a delusion hoping that Rudra's doesn't get nerfed instead of actually being concerned about the balance of the game, just being happy that you're OP. Beyond that, many of the people posting don't actually have enough experience with end game and other jobs to even make a proper judgment on it, they just like being strong.

I am really, really hoping it does get nerfed, but it probably won't be. SE never seems to nerf anything.

The damage, described by Byrth above, is very high. That combined with SA, TA, Assassin's Charge, whatever else Thief has, even more. I'm also pretty sure it scales better in damage at 3000 TP than Fudo does, resulting in even more damage (Rudra's is 19.5 at 3000, Fudo is 8.0, Rudra's scales up harder). Beyond that, they also bring TH and the utility of the enmity control, Feint, Conspirator... blah blah. There's just no reason for Rudra's to do so much damage on top of everything else Thief already has going for it.

We also can't forget the 99% accuracy of daggers, and how much stronger Rudra's is than every other dagger weaponskill, thus making them almost useless in comparison in the majority of scenarios.

[FrankReynolds]

You and the other people liking your posts should actually do the math instead of just saying so. You're all in a delusion hoping that Rudra's doesn't get nerfed instead of actually being concerned about the balance of the game, just being happy that you're OP. Beyond that, many of the people posting don't actually have enough experience with end game and other jobs to even make a proper judgment on it, they just like being strong.

I am really, really hoping it does get nerfed, but it probably won't be. SE never seems to nerf anything.

The damage, described by Byrth above, is very high. That combined with SA, TA, Assassin's Charge, whatever else Thief has, even more. I'm also pretty sure it scales better in damage at 3000 TP than Fudo does, resulting in even more damage (Rudra's is 19.5 at 3000, Fudo is 8.0, Rudra's scales up harder). Beyond that, they also bring TH and the utility of the enmity control, Feint, Conspirator... blah blah. There's just no reason for Rudra's to do so much damage on top of everything else Thief already has going for it.

We also can't forget the 99% accuracy of daggers, and how much stronger Rudra's is than every other dagger weaponskill, thus making them almost useless in comparison in the majority of scenarios.

The damage over time is what matters. Not who can hit the highest one time epeen weapon skill number during a fight. That's why monk has always been competitive despite low ws numbers and frequency in comparison to samurai. Thief has always been a job that relied on spike damage and it can do that again now. There's more to the game than who has the highest weapon skill number.

And come on... Enmity control?...Treasure hunter?... /SMH

[dasva]

You and the other people liking your posts should actually do the math instead of just saying so. You're all in a delusion hoping that Rudra's doesn't get nerfed instead of actually being concerned about the balance of the game, just being happy that you're OP. Beyond that, many of the people posting don't actually have enough experience with end game and other jobs to even make a proper judgment on it, they just like being strong.

I am really, really hoping it does get nerfed, but it probably won't be. SE never seems to nerf anything.

The damage, described by Byrth above, is very high. That combined with SA, TA, Assassin's Charge, whatever else Thief has, even more. I'm also pretty sure it scales better in damage at 3000 TP than Fudo does, resulting in even more damage (Rudra's is 19.5 at 3000, Fudo is 8.0, Rudra's scales up harder). Beyond that, they also bring TH and the utility of the enmity control, Feint, Conspirator... blah blah. There's just no reason for Rudra's to do so much damage on top of everything else Thief already has going for it.

We also can't forget the 99% accuracy of daggers, and how much stronger Rudra's is than every other dagger weaponskill, thus making them almost useless in comparison in the majority of scenarios.

I don't think you understand how this stuff works at all....

AC isn't going to add that much percentage wise especially if you SA/TA and at one point was actually a dps loss to use it though not sure it still is. And without SA/TA thf ws at 1000 tp are doing only similar dmg to what others are doing while not doing it as often/fast as jobs like sam

Not sure what your point in scaling as neither job would want to save that much tp other than to activate AM3 or maybe to store before a fight. But as far as which one scales better between 1250 and 3000 yes rudra's is bit better but it's not as crazy as you make it seem with those numbers they both gain a lot percentage wise. Meanwhile in the time you took to save up the same has made a self 5 step skillchain.

Also I wouldn't call it so much stronger than every other dagger ws. The jobs with mythic daggers do similar dmg with their weapons sometimes better sometimes worse. Mercy stroke does more at 1250. Evisceration also does a lot of the time which is nice when SA or TA aren't up

Edit: You know what also scales well and can get 99% acc? Savage blade. 5.0 ftp at 1000 14.5 at 3000. And at warrior making use of fencer and tp bonus earring will be having an effective tp of at a minimum 1800, with warcry up 2500. Which means throwing out ws with 13ftp as soon as they hit 1000 tp

[PlumbGame]

I have seen the math the other way around too. See how that works?

You are entitled to your own opinion and I am to mine. I've made my opinion on the matter clear, so that's all I needed to say.

o·pin·ion
əˈpinyən/
noun
noun: opinion; plural noun: opinions

a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.




fact
fakt/
noun
noun: fact; plural noun: facts

a thing that is indisputably the case.

[Atomic_Skull]

Yeah, you can trick attack or sneak attack, and that just makes the damage even higher. The damage is still stupidly high regardless of whether or not you do that.

Yes, Valkurm Imperator is one example, but there are many other fights I've done with Thieves where they simply just melt everything. It really doesn't matter what it is; use Rudra's, thing dies. Sure you can be a good thief and actually know how to use your JA's, but the fact is that you don't have to, because Rudra's still melts everything regardless.

Unstacked Rudra's does the same or less damage as Torcleaver, Victory Smite, Ukko's etc. You're just spreading blatant lies because of how desperately you want Rudra's nerfed.