dagger ws too OP?

[Kimble]

From what I've been experiencing, people who still do VWNMs hesitate to bring multiple THFs.

There was an argument in one group I was in. There were four THFs who had Kaggen's HP down to under 8% after all THFs used Rudra about a second after we spawned Kaggen.

After the first four pops and never capping red or getting White proc, the group disbanded.

[dasva]

Well that's just people being stupid lol. I mean you've always been able to kill way before you could proc but you didn't unless you wanted too.

[Crevox]

Personally, I would like to see a Rudra's Storm nerf. It's gotten to the point where nothing in the game is difficult as long as you have Bards, Thieves, or Dancers. Yes, even Bards are doing it, because it does such large amounts of damage even for them, it's a waste not to.

It sucks going up to a boss and just doing absolutely terrible damage compared to them because all they have to do is just use Rudra's over and over again. Everything dies extremely quickly. I joined a Valkurm Imperator party, and naturally we have a Thief, and he kills it from 50% health to 0% with one Rudra's. Joined Walk of Echoes, hey look, another Thief, once again doing extremely large amounts of damage with Rudra's.

Rudra's trivializes all the content, because everything is solved by just throwing daggers at it, and you know you can never really match up to them in damage because it's just that much stronger than everything else. It's not even like it requires good gear to do so, or requires specific group comps; it's just extremely strong all the time. And no, I don't want other jobs buffed up to its strength either, because it is just way too powerful. Everything dies way too fast and easy with it.

This isn't fun. Joining any content with people who use Rudra's just makes it boring.

[Camiie]

This isn't fun. Joining any content with people who use Rudra's just makes it boring.

To each their own, because it's great fun to me! I adore dual wielding and attacking quickly. It's been a long time since that's actually been worth doing. I've never understood why FFXI and other MMOs tend to put such heavy penalties on it. That's ruined quite a few games for me. If I hadn't found enjoyment in other jobs it would have ruined FFXI for me too.

[Tidis]

From what I've been experiencing, people who still do VWNMs hesitate to bring multiple THFs.

There was an argument in one group I was in. There were four THFs who had Kaggen's HP down to under 8% after all THFs used Rudra about a second after we spawned Kaggen.

After the first four pops and never capping red or getting White proc, the group disbanded.

Tell them to stop being stupid and not WS unless they need to proc or red is capped, VW stuff dies fast, Rudra's just makes it faster, ideally you should just have 1 DD holding it until red is proc'd then melt it.

[Ulth]

From what I've been experiencing, people who still do VWNMs hesitate to bring multiple THFs.

There was an argument in one group I was in. There were four THFs who had Kaggen's HP down to under 8% after all THFs used Rudra about a second after we spawned Kaggen.

After the first four pops and never capping red or getting White proc, the group disbanded.

When it comes to VW I don't even fight. I sit back turned away waiting to hear them call out "Job ability thf" or "Full attack!" If the only person meleeing the mob isn't a war or nin with a 1 damage weapon, you are doing it wrong.

Personally, I would like to see a Rudra's Storm nerf. It's gotten to the point where nothing in the game is difficult as long as you have Bards, Thieves, or Dancers. Yes, even Bards are doing it, because it does such large amounts of damage even for them, it's a waste not to.

It sucks going up to a boss and just doing absolutely terrible damage compared to them because all they have to do is just use Rudra's over and over again. Everything dies extremely quickly. I joined a Valkurm Imperator party, and naturally we have a Thief, and he kills it from 50% health to 0% with one Rudra's. Joined Walk of Echoes, hey look, another Thief, once again doing extremely large amounts of damage with Rudra's.

Rudra's trivializes all the content, because everything is solved by just throwing daggers at it, and you know you can never really match up to them in damage because it's just that much stronger than everything else. It's not even like it requires good gear to do so, or requires specific group comps; it's just extremely strong all the time. And no, I don't want other jobs buffed up to its strength either, because it is just way too powerful. Everything dies way too fast and easy with it.

This isn't fun. Joining any content with people who use Rudra's just makes it boring.

Valkurm Imperator is weak to piercing. Gear actually matters a whole lot for rudra damage, it matters even more for being able to tp efficiently. Thief damage is highly based on the group set up; if there are no other melee jobs, there is no one to trick attack off or to hold hate while you sneak attack, so damage is basically halved. Please stop spreading misconceptions.

Playing thf well is not as simple as everyone seems to think. I know because since the update everyone has been playing thf, and a lot aren't that good at it. I'm only okay at it, and I do at least double what the bandwagon thfs are doing. thf just seems crazy op because the people who were good at it before the update were working with a disadvantage and now have the advantage.

[dasva]

Personally, I would like to see a Rudra's Storm nerf. It's gotten to the point where nothing in the game is difficult as long as you have Bards, Thieves, or Dancers. Yes, even Bards are doing it, because it does such large amounts of damage even for them, it's a waste not to.

It sucks going up to a boss and just doing absolutely terrible damage compared to them because all they have to do is just use Rudra's over and over again. Everything dies extremely quickly. I joined a Valkurm Imperator party, and naturally we have a Thief, and he kills it from 50% health to 0% with one Rudra's. Joined Walk of Echoes, hey look, another Thief, once again doing extremely large amounts of damage with Rudra's.

Rudra's trivializes all the content, because everything is solved by just throwing daggers at it, and you know you can never really match up to them in damage because it's just that much stronger than everything else. It's not even like it requires good gear to do so, or requires specific group comps; it's just extremely strong all the time. And no, I don't want other jobs buffed up to its strength either, because it is just way too powerful. Everything dies way too fast and easy with it.

This isn't fun. Joining any content with people who use Rudra's just makes it boring.

Well then you better be asking for a nerf on like half the magical ws out there since they can go as high lol.... Pretty sure I can get several of the 1hd physical ones can go almost that high as well. Oh and barrage while we are at it. sam for it's constant skillchaining

[Camiie]

Besides, don't you have to stack abilities like SA, TA, or Climactic Flourish to get those huge numbers out of Rudra's?

[Crevox]

if there are no other melee jobs, there is no one to trick attack off or to hold hate while you sneak attack, so damage is basically halved. Please stop spreading misconceptions.

Playing thf well is not as simple as everyone seems to think. I know because since the update everyone has been playing thf, and a lot aren't that good at it. I'm only okay at it, and I do at least double what the bandwagon thfs are doing. thf just seems crazy op because the people who were good at it before the update were working with a disadvantage and now have the advantage.

Yeah, you can trick attack or sneak attack, and that just makes the damage even higher. The damage is still stupidly high regardless of whether or not you do that.

Yes, Valkurm Imperator is one example, but there are many other fights I've done with Thieves where they simply just melt everything. It really doesn't matter what it is; use Rudra's, thing dies. Sure you can be a good thief and actually know how to use your JA's, but the fact is that you don't have to, because Rudra's still melts everything regardless.

Gear actually matters a whole lot for rudra damage, it matters even more for being able to tp efficiently.

Of course it does, like everything else, but the point is that it's absurdly strong even without the proper gear. That just makes it even better.

Well then you better be asking for a nerf on like half the magical ws out there since they can go as high lol.... Pretty sure I can get several of the 1hd physical ones can go almost that high as well. Oh and barrage while we are at it. sam for it's constant skillchaining

Under special cases, magical weaponskills can hit very high damage, yes. If special cases are applied to Rudra's, then we get the OP skillchain damage and Rudra's damage screenshots too. A lot of things can become very strong under optimal conditions. The thing is that Rudra's do not require optimal conditions to be strong, and IF those optimal conditions are granted to Rudra's, then it's even way further beyond in strength.

SAM is the only thing that can compete with the dagger jobs right now, yes. SAM and fudo and skillchaining has always been stronger than everything else, however, Rudra's has taken that a huge step further, and too far. Instead of buffing thieves to the strength of Samurai, they took it past that.

Besides, don't you have to stack abilities like SA, TA, or Climactic Flourish to get those huge numbers out of Rudra's?

That's the thing; no, you don't have to. Most of the thieves I party with don't use any of those. They don't have to. If they do, it's even better yeah, and even more OP, but even without it, it's still way stronger than it should be.

All the content I join nowadays is just a bunch of thieves spamming Rudra's. Some Thieves do TA, some do SA, whatever, doesn't matter. They just all walk up to the mob and mash Rudra's at the enemy until it dies. Yaaaay. So exciting. So much skill.

[FrankReynolds]

Yes, Valkurm Imperator is one example, but there are many other fights I've done with Thieves where they simply just melt everything.

Thieves aren't "Melting" anything that samurais and monks weren't already melting. Samurais still out parse most thieves in general. Rudras hasn't changed the difficulty of the content at all. Just the jobs that can do it. Stop spreading FUD.