The importance of job points

[PlumbGame]

directed at PlumbGame, you have a very bad example, it's not a case of farm job points or afk in town, it's a case of farm job points or farm dynamis or farm salvage or do delve or do high tier battlefields etc. There is so much content available right now that gives better reward for time spent than farming job points.

I do those everyday and have over 200 jps on thief.

[Tidis]

I do those everyday and have over 200 jps on thief.

Wow because during the week I have at most 6hrs playtime and that would be if I literally got home and played the game until bed, realistically there's food, social activities and maybe even other games, a movie, a bit of TV, so most nights I probably have 2-3 hours playtime and I play catch up at the weekend but you seem to be able to do everything everyday, are you unemployed, work part-time?

[Alhanelem]

The issue here is that you haven't accounted for the forced delay that accompanies any magic action (3 seconds)

You can definitely cast tier 1 black magic less than 3 seconds after it finishes casting, unless I have a really funny idea of what "3 seconds" is.

So you've set up:
T1: 1600/3.1 = 516 DPS
T4: 3500/4.2 = 833 DPS

Therefore we seem to agree that T4 spells have higher DPS than Tier 1 spells, which is all that I stated.

Again, unless i've gone crazy, it takes more than 4.2 seconds to recast a tier IV spell. That also doesn't factor in the casting time, because you can't start casting until the recast is up. Even with a large amount of haste and fast cast 4.2 seconds from the first spell hitting to the second spell hitting seems way too low.

[Rwolf]

Both post-99 systems are a mess in how they were implemented (Item Level & Job Points). There's nothing wrong with the idea of creating a way for players to progress and ascend, to stagnate too much would make players lose interest. I think most of community agrees on this.

Concerning specifically Job Points, I feel they could have done a better job in communicating their intent. While I realize no one (or company) is perfect, from a constructive criticism standpoint they could stand to be more clear with their future vision of level increases - even if it changes in a matter of months from being a casual edge to a new level progression system.

My personal concerns with Job Points are "fixing" jobs with them. I say fix in quotes because I'm not trying to say these jobs have zero use, but they do have flaws which have been brought up by the community. If there is an overarching issue with a job, it should be directly applied to the job itself. Some jobs have gotten that treatment directly in the past year to correct things (GEO, DRG, PUP, SMN, NIN, etc.) They didn't require additional grinding beyond being level 99. They were just remedied, and I would feel the exact same way if these were added merit points which are easier to accumulate.

Some commonly voiced issues I've seen is pet stats not being enough for content through accuracy, attack or survivability. Also Blue Mage, with additional effects of spells have poor accuracy and set point issues (especially now with the growing set number rate). However, unlike the other jobs it was applied to job points. Blue Mage in particular isn't some helpless job, but that doesn't affect the validity of expecting it to be directly applied to the job.

I can understand the concern of some players that they might be also trying to fix Elemental Magic falling behind with Job Points/Gifts given the announcement of these spells shortly after announcing they are making adjustments to Elemental Magic next. This is a case where it would be beneficial for SE to be a little more clear with communication and explain their plans for Elemental Magic, just as they did with the previous Elemental Magic update.

I'm all for 6 man parties again if that's their agenda for Job Points/Gifts. However, they need to balance jobs more so they are desirable to take to Job Points parties and you aren't stuck with the same bandwagon of jobs. While it might not be the case yet as you pretty much try to take whoever will do them right now. If they continue in the aspect of making it a true level expansion system, players will start to optimize and exclude when desirability rises, like any other content.

(geez... that was a long post. sorry)

[Alhanelem]

I don't think job points are a "mess." the only thing people are crying about is 1) speed and 2) "wah wah they said it wasnt "important"!"

In fact Job points are very superior to merit points in that the only limiting factor is time. You're not imposed arbitrary limitations on what you can upgrade (you can get all of the upgrades given enough time).

The best way to get them is to form parties, but they can still be earned solo with trusts. It's a throwback to the good ol days in a way. Form a good party and you can really rack 'em up. Trusts help any job be able to obtain them, even those that typically arent the best at soloing.

Personally though, I think the doubled rate should be the standard rate. but its still doable. I think the upcoming additions are good because more people will start caring about job points and there will be more farming parties out there.

[PlumbGame]

Wow because during the week I have at most 6hrs playtime and that would be if I literally got home and played the game until bed, realistically there's food, social activities and maybe even other games, a movie, a bit of TV, so most nights I probably have 2-3 hours playtime and I play catch up at the weekend but you seem to be able to do everything everyday, are you unemployed, work part-time?

Ok, I see the issue. You feel because you don't have the time, you should be given everything. That isn't how MMOs work. I hate to break it to you.

Time to start making priorities in your FFXI career or don't advance your character through JPs. Should you instantly have lvl 99 characters also because you choose to do dyna vs lvling them?

[Rwolf]

I personally think the implementation is a mess not the idea, but you're welcome to your opinion. I shouldn't speak for others, it's ignorant. I will say I haven't seen much resistance to a new grind. I have seen resistance to adding "fixes" or how the implementation and communication of Job Points has been handled.

I agree that the doubled rate should be the standard rate. I personally think they are trying to add too many other ways to compensate (campaigns, rings, capes, gifts, COR roll) for the natural low amount. Adding so many options to boost the speed of content they just added not long ago, seems to be a sign to just naturally boost the base gain. I'm personally OK with change of importance. My concerns are base CP rate with too much augmenting methods and leaving job issues out of job points.

[Raydeus]

Ok, I see the issue. You feel because you don't have the time, you should be given everything. That isn't how MMOs work. I hate to break it to you.

Time to start making priorities in your FFXI career or don't advance your character through JPs. Should you instantly have lvl 99 characters also because you choose to do dyna vs lvling them?

Now I'm curious, exactly how many hours do you play every day?

[dasva]

You can definitely cast tier 1 black magic less than 3 seconds after it finishes casting, unless I have a really funny idea of what "3 seconds" is.

It's really easy to not really notice small amounts of time. Try chainspell stuff you'll only get about 20 casts before it wears off and that is with actually instant casting/recast. The forced delay for ja, ws, and magic has been highly documented for years. It's why I suggested one improvement for really mages in general was to get rid of it. Though if they got rid of ja forced delays dnc would gain a lot... and given they recently got rid of it for maneuvers they clearly can. Also getting rid of it for the aftershot for ranged would be huge and basically the main thing holding back ranged dmg right now as we can get almost as much snapshot as melees get haste but have this stupid forced wait after that nothing lowers

Again, unless i've gone crazy, it takes more than 4.2 seconds to recast a tier IV spell. That also doesn't factor in the casting time, because you can't start casting until the recast is up. Even with a large amount of haste and fast cast 4.2 seconds from the first spell hitting to the second spell hitting seems way too low.

You should've read what he wrote after that. Since you didn't I'll paraphrase: there are 6 T4 nukes, cycle thru them and you'll never run into recast issues. That 4.2 is accounting for the cast time and the forced delay

[PlumbGame]

Now I'm curious, exactly how many hours do you play every day?

My play time is irrelevant to the entitlement players think they deserve. If you don't farm JPs, that isn't SE's fault. I farmed 20 JPs in 1 hour of a CP party the other day. That is apparently more CP than most the people complaining in this thread have. Yet they don't have the time? 1 hour is a lot of time? Choosing to dyna or some sort of content over farming JPs warrants handouts?

That being said, make sure my position is clear. I don't care if there is a change or not to the rate JPs are gained. IDC if they give players spells that require JPs or not. I do care that players are trying to validate their laziness to receive benefits.