The importance of job points

[Tidis]

Sorry, it just gets to the point when does the brick wall listen and stop spewing nonsense. You try to phrase things without literately calling them an idiot but then they just don't get it. Usually discussions result in heated sides because you get passionate people about a subject, in this case, people passionate about the JP system not just giving everything away to people who only have roughly 20 total JPs since the system was implemented because they openly admit they want handouts.

You're probably the biggest example of a brick wall since you stick to this whole nonsense argument that anyone who wants JP to be easier equates to them wanting handouts, what people have suggested is things like, the double points campaign should be the permanent amount, CP chains should last longer, base CP levels should be higher. They're all fair suggestions, it wouldn't trivialise the content or make it a handout at all, it would still take a long time to cap Job points on all jobs you want to be relevant, especially if they do increase the cap to 30 per category.

At the same time people get frustrated because there are people out there who bot their Job Points and then brag about how easy it is to get JP, I'm not saying everyone does it, that would be ridiculous but it paints a massive negative stigma to farming JP.

[PlumbGame]

You're probably the biggest example of a brick wall since you stick to this whole nonsense argument that anyone who wants JP to be easier equates to them wanting handouts, what people have suggested is things like, the double points campaign should be the permanent amount, CP chains should last longer, base CP levels should be higher. They're all fair suggestions, it wouldn't trivialise the content or make it a handout at all, it would still take a long time to cap Job points on all jobs you want to be relevant, especially if they do increase the cap to 30 per category.

At the same time people get frustrated because there are people out there who bot their Job Points and then brag about how easy it is to get JP, I'm not saying everyone does it, that would be ridiculous but it paints a massive negative stigma to farming JP.

I stopped reading after you told me I equate people to wanting handouts when the post before last I literally quoted him implying he enjoys handouts.

If you took 5 seconds to read the thread instead of jumping down someones throat you would know that my position isn't on weather JPs are easy or hard to obtain, and I could care less. Make them easier to obtain I just get them faster. I do care though, especially playing this game since NA release, when a player now and days blatantly wants this or that just for the sake of them being lazy. Which has been implied, and flat out said, by people in this thread.

[Tidis]

I stopped reading after you told me I equate people to wanting handouts when the post before last I literally quoted him implying he enjoys handouts.

Yeah just read that, he never said that, now you're just making stuff up to defend your argument.

[PlumbGame]

I'd also like to requote this

I'm beginning to wonder if he (Mrkillface aka FrankReynolds) even plays the game anymore. Looking at FFXIAH he has 2 JP and hasn't bought or sold anything from AH since September.

edit: added specifically who I was referring to.

The dude trying to validate how horrible the system is isn't even playing the game. Now granted he could be an alt, or he literally logs on and just sits in town, but even his shells have him as inactive.

Yeah just read that, he never said that, now you're just making stuff up to defend your argument.

Good one.

I'll quote this for you to hopefully help you understand what an implication is.

im·pli·ca·tion
ˌimpləˈkāSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: implication; plural noun: implications

1.
the conclusion that can be drawn from something, although it is not explicitly stated.

2.
the action or state of being involved in something.


Basically, he said it, but he didn't, which if he is as intelligent as he tries to portray, he wouldn't, to try and pull what you are pulling by stating he never said it. The last thing he said not only implied that he enjoys handouts (and this is ignoring the implication of that in most of his responses in this thread), but he tried to straw man the argument.

[FrankReynolds]

Bad analogies are bad. I'm bad at understanding analogies

Fixed that for you.

Hmm the implication here, so which is it? You are lazy or you aren't lazy?

I don't see any implication of being lazy in there. Is there some hidden text that I missed? While we're on the subject though, do you honestly believe that if I spend my time doing assaults and you spend yours farming JP that I am somehow lazy while you are not? Do you have a special keyboard that makes it harder to hit the weapon skill macro whenever it senses that you are doing JP? Where can I get one of those?

I'd also like to requote this

The dude trying to validate how horrible the system is isn't even playing the game. Now granted he could be an alt, or he literally logs on and just sits in town, but even his shells have him as inactive.

Those sites are horribly inaccurate. One of the shells that FFXIAH lists was broken like 2-3 years ago. But thanks for checking in on me. It's good to have fans. It is true that I haven't been on that character much lately though. I've been busy gearing and farming currencies on my other characters. Mrkill does just sit in town all day most days.

But hey, when you have no logical argument, just attack the person instead.

Basically, he said it, but he didn't, which if he is as intelligent as he tries to portray, he wouldn't, to try and pull what you are pulling by stating he never said it. Basically the last thing he said not only implied that he enjoys handouts (and this is ignoring the implication of that in most of his responses in this thread), but he tried to straw man the argument.

I do enjoy hand outs. I didn't ask for any though. I argued for a system to behave as advertised and / or at least be less boring and time consuming to complete. Like I suggested before, you wanting to push buttons in a different area of the game than where I like to push buttons doesn't make you any more or less lazy than I am. You'll have to come up with a new way to insult me.

You said that getting JP was easy by your standards. Then you called people who wanted getting JP to be easy by their standards lazy. Implying that it's only okay for things to be easy for you, not for other people. Calling that a straw man won't make it any less true.

[Alhanelem]

Really? People never complained about merits?

Really. They didn't. Yes, people complained about specific things like "c'mon SE, un-cap the weapon skill merits" or "cmon SE, let me get everything!" But not about the system as a whole.

But did people complain about how long they took? Did they complain about how much abilities cost? In other words, the stuff people are complaining about here? No, not really. Did they complain about how important or unimportant merits were? No, not really. Complaints about merits were pinprick on the surface of what is the *$%&ing about job points.

I'm pretty sure that I've seen you posting in some of those very same threads quite a bit...

I've posted opposing threads complaining about the caps on merit groups. Those arent threads complaining that merits as a whole are bad and that merits are earned too slow and are too important / too unimportant. This whole thread is primarily about job points being a terrible grind and being too important/unimportant, things that were (almost) never complained about with the merit system which is, in most ways other than the rate of earning, extremely similar.

[FrankReynolds]

Really. They didn't. Yes, people complained about specific things like "c'mon SE, un-cap the weapon skill merits" or "cmon SE, let me get everything!" But not about the system as a whole.

But did people complain about how long they took? Did they complain about how much abilities cost? In other words, the stuff people are complaining about here? No, not really. Did they complain about how important or unimportant merits were? No, not really. Complaints about merits were pinprick on the surface of what is the *$%&ing about job points.

People complained about merits for years, but for slightly different reasons? Okay... and then what? You brought them up. You said people didn't complain. They did complain though. A lot. For a long time.

[PlumbGame]

Please provide the 100s of old threads complaining about the merit system that has a majority of the populace agreeing the merit system was garbage. Thank you.

[Alhanelem]

People complained about merits for years, but for slightly different reasons? Okay... and then what? You brought them up. You said people didn't complain. They did complain though. A lot. For a long time.

No. They didn't complain a lot. They complained very little by comparison, nothing like what I'm seeing here now. Most people liked merit points outside of minor grievances. You're just bending this to mean what you want it to mean. People are complaining about job point issues where merit points worked the same and people didn't complain much. Please dig up the alleged slew of threads where people complained that (SPECIFICALLY) merits take too long and that they are (or aren't) important. I'd really like to see them.

As per the above poster, you can't because it didn't really happen.

[Protey]

Why do you think people are asking for lower requirements on the JP system? They want to be better...

Without having to do much to obtain being better.

I'll do what I want. I've been playing this game since the JP release and I'll keep trying to make it better for me and other people like me until they shut it down whether you like it or not. Deal with it.

yes, you and others like you are doing so well at making the game better that when SE did what you advocate for it caused massive amounts of people to leave the game. Good job.

No, I just possess adequate mental faculties to recognize a trend that hasn't changed in over ten years of FFXI.

more falsehoods from you. PUG don't ask what JPs or merits one has.

Yes. People who don't have experience because they don't get invites have a much harder time actually leading groups. Leading a bunch of failed runs adn / or constantly asking someone else to lead your party quickly leads to people not joining your groups.

wow, really. because the concept of gathering people together to figure something out just doesn't cross your mind? you know, like when content first comes out? and heaven forbid people actually look at wikis and forums to figure things out. I think you don't consider obvious possibilities, or possibly even omit them on purpose, and are just here to argue for the sake of arguing.

You don't have to get them either. You can waste time killing bunnies all day without the JP system. Your argument is void.

your statement does not disprove what i said. so no, my argument is not void. you just state irrelevant things.

I'm very capable. I'm just not a dick to people who aren't.

as is typical with someone who can't give legitimate arguments, you resort to immature name calling.