[Dev1235] Job Adjustments

[Ulth]

I don't know how you can say it's the players' fault. As players we're slaves to however the devs adjust the game. We do the job with the tools we have. If they make one of our tools stronger, it's not the players' fault if we choose to use the stronger tool whenever possible. The devs can't throw their hands up in the air and say "We never expected this! Why aren't you using weaker tools for the job? Also we have no control over it, we're just devs!"

If they make a strong WS like Fudo easily available, give it useful skillchain properties, and then buff skillchains, what do you think will happen? What happens when you make it very easy to self-skillchain? Is this really the players' fault?

I'm pretty sure they knew what they were doing. I'm also working under the assumption that they devs like to play sam.

[Dale]

I'm pretty sure they knew what they were doing. I'm also working under the assumption that they devs like to play sam.

I'm pretty sure they knew what they are doing too. They just don't obsess over damage in the same way some of the players on this game does

It's just not a big deal. I do content regularly with Samurais and without them. People who act like there is such a massive imbalance that no job but samurai deserves a party invite are exaggerating to the point they really aren't worth paying attention to. So I don't blame the developers for ignoring them. I would too. And if they threatened to leave the game over it - I would show them where the door was.

This would be a better game without these obsessive players who think everyone's worth must be measured in terms of damage per second. I'm tired of it. They are a plague on MMORPGs as far as I'm concerned.

[Afania]

I'm pretty sure they knew what they are doing too. They just don't obsess over damage in the same way some of the players on this game does

It's just not a big deal. I do content regularly with Samurais and without them. People who act like there is such a massive imbalance that no job but samurai deserves a party invite are exaggerating to the point they really aren't worth paying attention to. So I don't blame the developers for ignoring them. I would too. And if they threatened to leave the game over it - I would show them where the door was.

This would be a better game without these obsessive players who think everyone's worth must be measured in terms of damage per second. I'm tired of it. They are a plague on MMORPGs as far as I'm concerned.

Please show other ppl who want a more balanced FFXI a door to leave so the entire server only has Dale and his friends, thanks.

You know, if the entire server only has Dale and his friend left, it'd be ideal MMORPG in Dale's mind.

[Dale]

Please show other ppl who want a more balanced FFXI a door to leave so the entire server only has Dale and his friends, thanks.

You know, if the entire server only has Dale and his friend left, it'd be ideal MMORPG in Dale's mind.

You are mischaracterizing what I said. And all anyone has to do is read what you actually bolded in my quote to see that.

I said this would be a better game without these obsessive players who think everyone's worth must be measure in terms of damage per second.

I never said players who want a more balanced game.

When you have to rewrite what I actually said to make your argument, that means two things: 1: you aren't interesting in an honest debate and 2: your argument is weak otherwise you wouldn't have to change what I said to begin with and my actual words would have been enough.

So I stand by what I actually said.

[Afania]

You are mischaracterizing what I said. And all anyone has to do is read what you actually bolded in my quote to see that.

I said this would be a better game without these obsessive players who think everyone's worth must be measure in terms of damage per second.

I never said players who want a more balanced game.

When you have to rewrite what I actually said to make your argument, that means two things: 1: you aren't interesting in an honest debate and 2: your argument is weak otherwise you wouldn't have to change what I said to begin with and my actual words would have been enough.

So I stand by what I actually said.

No one is measuring other ppl's worth by their dmg. Are you trying to imply that I take this job balance/game design issue to personal lv?

I AM interested in a honest debate about job and game design discussions. However after 30 pages all you're talking about is your personal preference and opinion about fun, I've yet to see a number and game mechanic discussion coming out from you.

I didn't rewrite what you actually said, I just copy and pasted what you said, this is the msg you're sending out after 30 pages of discussion.....we're not supposed to care about dmg because that somehow fits Dale's belief about MMORPG.

[Dale]

.
No one is measuring other ppl's worth by their dmg. Are you trying to imply that I take this job balance/game design issue to personal lv?

I AM interested in a honest debate about job and game design discussions. However after 30 pages all you're talking about is your personal preference and opinion about fun, I've yet to see a number and game mechanic discussion coming out from you.

I didn't rewrite what you actually said, I just copy and pasted what you said, this is the msg you're sending out after 30 pages of discussion.....we're not supposed to care about dmg because that somehow fits Dale's belief about MMORPG.

Oh but they are. When some one refuses to group with another based solely on the fact they cannot do as much damage as a Samurai for example: that is exactly what they are doing. As far as what you do on a personal level I don't know and don't need to know

And no, you aren't interested in honest debate. Otherwise you would stop exaggerating and re-writing the things I actually say.

And you are the last person who has a right to complain about my posts. You go out of your way to keep stirring up debate with me when I have tried to end it already on several occasions. Once again you are trying to play the victim when you were the one actually starting it.

[Ulth]

I'm pretty sure they knew what they are doing too. They just don't obsess over damage in the same way some of the players on this game does

It's just not a big deal. I do content regularly with Samurais and without them. People who act like there is such a massive imbalance that no job but samurai deserves a party invite are exaggerating to the point they really aren't worth paying attention to. So I don't blame the developers for ignoring them. I would too. And if they threatened to leave the game over it - I would show them where the door was.

This would be a better game without these obsessive players who think everyone's worth must be measured in terms of damage per second. I'm tired of it. They are a plague on MMORPGs as far as I'm concerned.

You are really stupid aren't you? The devs do obsess over damage. It is literally their jobs. Every thing they change in every update is them obsessing over damage. They don't just pull random numbers out of a hat to make up the stats on new equipment, they think, compare it to gear that is already in the game, and build it. And yes there is a massive imbalance between samurai and other damage dealing jobs. I know that, the devs know that, everyone knows that. Why don't you know that? You think the reason it balances out is because they take more damage? They are a heavy armor job; also with +1 skirmish armor any job can have capped pdt mdt. The reason you see samurai get face rolled is because they are doing something like wearing 109 instead of 119. Comparing one job at 109 and another at 119 is not a very good way of balancing things. And yeah the devs are trying to balance jobs. Why else would every update have job adjustments if not for that reason. Also I'm sure this will come as a shock but when picking a damage dealer for a party, the amount of damage they can do matters. That's why when you pick a healer you get a white mage, because they heal the best. Player's measure worth in worth. Also when they spend hours shouting, it's for stuff like bard. The world is lousy with samurai, nobody needs to shout for that.

Side note, Afania they will not nerf samurai. The amount of backlash of nerfing a job is way worst than just trying to buff all the other jobs to just below sam level like how I'm sure the devs want. You may think this makes the game too easy, but don't worry. I'm sure delve 3 will be gruelingly hard. And then people could always do stuff like spamming high tier battles on Very Difficult, instead of just Difficult.

[Dale]

You are really stupid aren't you? The devs do obsess over damage. It is literally their jobs. Every thing they change in every update is them obsessing over damage. They don't just pull random numbers out of a hat to make up the stats on new equipment, they think, compare it to gear that is already in the game, and build it. And yes there is a massive imbalance between samurai and other damage dealing jobs. I know that, the devs know that, everyone knows that. Why don't you know that? You think the reason it balances out is because they take more damage? They are a heavy armor job; also with +1 skirmish armor any job can have capped pdt mdt. The reason you see samurai get face rolled is because they are doing something like wearing 109 instead of 119. Comparing one job at 109 and another at 119 is not a very good way of balancing things. And yeah the devs are trying to balance jobs. Why else would every update have job adjustments if not for that reason. Also I'm sure this will come as a shock but when picking a damage dealer for a party, the amount of damage they can do matters. That's why when you pick a healer you get a white mage, because they heal the best. Player's measure worth in worth. Also when they spend hours shouting, it's for stuff like bard. The world is lousy with samurai, nobody needs to shout for that.

There is a difference in attempting to balance damage appropriately and then someone obsessing over it. Such as someone acting as if it's the only thing that matters and they must have the job that does the most damage to do anything.

Also, I should point out I heal content all the time as my Red Mage. I've never had any players try to give me the boot because I'm not worth as much as a White Mage to them simply because they can heal better.

Not all players measure others in the same way you seem to. And it would be a huge mistake for the developers to try and equalize all jobs in an attempt to appease this kind of thinking. I've seen what it can lead to and I would prefer not to see that kind of shallow gameplay come to this game. Because I like job diversity and how different jobs have strengths and weaknesses. And it's not worth giving that up just because some players can't be bothered to accommodate each other and learn to work as a team to overcome weaknesses and instead just choose to concentrate on the jobs with singular strengths and ignore everyone else.

As far as Samurais being so massively over-powered, I just haven't noticed it. But since so many people feel so strongly about it I'll admit there is probably some work to be done here. I just think it's being exaggerated and players are needlessly obsessing over it even to the point they won't even group with other DD jobs who now feel they don't even contribute. And that is probably why you don't see the developers coming out of their boots to rush to solve it. I doubt it's because all of the developers play Samurai. They probably realize it's being blown out of proportion as well and will probably just do minor tweaks in an effort to gradually stem the madness.

[Ulth]

There is a difference in attempting to balance damage appropriately and then someone obsessing over it. Such as someone acting as if it's the only thing that matters and they must have the job that does the most damage to do anything.

Also, I should point out I heal content all the time as my Red Mage. I've never had any players try to give me the boot because I'm not worth as much as a White Mage to them simply because they can heal better.

Not all players measure others in the same way you seem to. And it would be a huge mistake for the developers to try and equalize all jobs in an attempt to appease this kind of thinking. I've seen what it can lead to and I would prefer not to see that kind of shallow gameplay come to this game. Because I like job diversity and how different jobs have strengths and weaknesses. And it's not worth giving that up just because some players can't be bothered to accommodate each other and learn to work as a team to overcome weaknesses and instead just choose to concentrate on the jobs with singular strengths and ignore everyone else.

As far as Samurais being so massively over-powered, I just haven't noticed it. But since so many people feel so strongly about it I'll admit there is probably some work to be done here. I just think it's being exaggerated and players are needlessly obsessing over it even to the point they won't even group with other DD jobs who now feel they don't even contribute. And that is probably why you don't see the developers coming out of their boots to rush to solve it. I doubt it's because all of the developers play Samurai. They probably realize it's being blown out of proportion as well and will probably just do minor tweaks in an effort to gradually stem the madness.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. That has to be the most infuriating part about your posts. You Don't know what you are talking about, how the jobs are unbalanced, or how people are actually playing, but you still act like you do. The two of you arguing this entire time is pretty annoying, but at least Afania knows about the game mechanics, which is the topic of this topic. Or I think that was the topic before all the nonsense started. Either you are some sort of troll, in which case congratulations on the amount of trolling you accomplished, or you need to work on being informed before hitting reply.

[Dale]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. That has to be the most infuriating part about your posts. You Don't know what you are talking about, how the jobs are unbalanced, or how people are actually playing, but you still act like you do. The two of you arguing this entire time is pretty annoying, but at least Afania knows about the game mechanics, which is the topic of this topic. Or I think that was the topic before all the nonsense started. Either you are some sort of troll, in which case congratulations on the amount of trolling you accomplished, or you need to work on being informed before hitting reply.

You are the one calling people stupid and resorting to personal attacks here. So if anyone is being a troll it's you.

Jobs are not suppose to be balanced purely around how much damage they can do. That would make for a very boring game - which is why a lot of the more modern MMORPGs are just that: boring with absolutely no interesting gameplay or versatility. Just bland DD/Heal/Tank jobs who all function basically the same and serve the same purpose because of thinking like this: which judges the worth of every party member based solely on how much damage they can do or how much their heals can do etc.