[Dev1235] Job Adjustments

[Seillan]

If someone is wasting your time by being a bad player, then I don't see why someone wouldn't be annoyed. I don't think I've heard of people being annoyed at bad players they don't play with, they usually just laugh at them.

One of the problems with your exact attitude is that people are often complaining about how they don't get invites in the game, and if anybody tells them its because of their favored job being terrible in the current game or because they gear/play poorly, they're usually the ones that actually get angry and act rude, as opposed to the people who know what they're doing. I've seen this over and over again, apparently giving advice = rude. A large portion of the playerbase has gotten jaded about that and basically nobody helps each other anymore, because people are almost never receptive to anything you have to say. (BTW, my favorite job is NIN, which has consistently been a terrible job except for exp grinding the old fashioned way and the Abyssea era, and some really niche things like Ark Angel EV)

If you've ever heard rumors of Japanese PUGs being more pleasant, I can tell you from first-hand experience that it's partially because Japanese players have a larger portion of people that are receptive to people giving them advice on how to play the game.

This isn't really a problem restricted to this game, this happens in basically every MMO. People that take the time and effort to learn how to play the game are always going to be annoyed at players that not just waste their time by being bad, but are also completely uninterested in improving and get defensive if you try to help them.

I think it depends on what type of "help" you're talking about. Calling someone "bad" and ridiculing them for playing a "useless" class and/or because they aren't using the most optimal gear setups isn't helping them at all; it just causes feelings of resentment. I'm not saying you do this (maybe you genuinely try to help inexperienced players while not being an asshole to them) but unfortunately, I'd say you would be the exception. The Japanese seem like a more polite/less confrontational culture in general, so it's not surprising that they remain diplomatic when giving advice; I'd wager they also don't forcefully interject their opinions as the only viable way to do something either. I've had enough experience in end-game situations in US mmorpgs to know that's typically not the case here -- in fact, it's practically the opposite. If more people actually remained sensible, patient, and polite while offering helpful advice to people that were struggling with their class/job for whatever reason, I doubt most people on the receiving end of said advice would get defensive about it. In other words, the presentation of advice is important. Telling someone to "L2P" is not advice, nor is it helpful in any way whatsoever.

[Kincard]

Except this entire conversation started under the context that someone got annoyed by a bad player they were playing with. The only person not following the conversation is you, and it's funny how you say all this stuff about being nice to others while being incredibly passive-aggressive yourself. You're not fooling anybody.

Stuff

I'm sure there are lots and lots of elitist players that act like dicks without provocation, but the majority of my experience is that terrible players simply do not take any criticism well, even if its worded in the nicest way possible. I find that for the most part, people that are willing to learn about the game probably go out seeking the information themselves and end up not really needing it anyway.

[Seillan]

Except this entire conversation started under the context that someone got annoyed by a bad player they were playing with. The only person not following the conversation is you, and it's funny how you say all this stuff about being nice to others while being incredibly passive-aggressive yourself. You're not fooling anybody.



I'm sure there are lots and lots of elitist players that act like dicks without provocation, but the majority of my experience is that terrible players simply do not take any criticism well, even if its worded in the nicest way possible. I find that for the most part, people that are willing to learn about the game probably go out seeking the information themselves and end up not really needing it anyway.

Edit: Misunderstanding on my part.

[Dale]

Except this entire conversation started under the context that someone got annoyed by a bad player they were playing with. The only person not following the conversation is you, and it's funny how you say all this stuff about being nice to others while being incredibly passive-aggressive yourself. You're not fooling anybody.
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I'm not much for being passive aggressive Kincard. If I want to be aggressive with someone, I won't be a passive about it.

I did find you blaming my attitude for the fact you can't find good players or that people are not receptive to your advice to be misplaced however. So I suggested it might be your attitude to blame instead. In other words: maybe you are just being too picky about how good that player should be. And maybe you are not giving them advice in a way that makes them want to consider it. But I pointed out that was just a guess. But in any case - if anyone was being passive aggressive in this conversation I would say it's you - trying to blame me for your troubles on the game simply because I think its silly to get annoyed at a warrior because they are using a shield.

And rather they are playing with this warrior using a shield or not - there is nothing to stop that person from simply leaving the group if the shield annoys them so much. So I don't understand what difference that makes. Either way, no one is forcing anyone to play with a warrior who is using a shield.

I'll end by saying something life has taught me: (because it may help you with your social predicaments on the game). Advice is best given when asked for.