[Dev1235] Job Adjustments

[Camiie]

Oh trust me I do that, but it pretty much never does any good. If things are that close to the edge it's generally due to a lackluster back line in the first place and they won't get to me in those 6 seconds. I did once get to play emergency tank in Divine Might II on Normal. That worked out because the healers were able to focus solely on me during the recovery stage. Cureskin helped me to keep my shadows up. That sort of thing is by far the exception though.

[Malithar]

@Cam, there's nothing that prevents you switching to def gear when 3 of the party go red HP and popping defender to let the whm get some cures off though.

Good Wars, and any player really, will do this already, it's called a -DT set. But advocating shield for War is beyond silly in such a situation. You'd be giving up your TP and/or any Aftermath effects, as well as having to switch back yet again once things even out, resetting yourself. Not saying shield doesn't have any point for War (but honestly...) but it's not something you should be switching in all willy nilly.

[Glamdring]

I'm not speaking of willy nilly, I'm speaking of fecal matter>>rotating blades, aka I have 10 seconds to live if that. I'd switch to holding a brick wall if it was necessary. I know XP is quick to recover, that isn't the issue, it's that your weakened time can be the margin between victory and defeat in tougher content. and like I said for the party situation it would be 3 or more chars going red simultaneously-likely from an AoE TP or spell. Well any main healer is going to hit up the tank 1st, then the DD, but WHICH dd, the war, the mnk, the sam? you can be down the depth list for that cure, and that isn't a bad backline, it's just too many DD to healers, and healers need to get MP even with refresh gear. If you are solo... well trust healers aren't always the quickest off the ball, if you are /dnc there are still stun and para effects (or even worse in that situation, TP reset). In other words, stuff happens but many DD, especially wars that I see do not come prepared for it. Then they blame the healer, or the stunner. Well sorry, but you may be 3-4 in the cure list. Oh, and the mob isn't sitting still while we are working our way to you. It's not backline malice or incompetence, we just have LOTS of stuff to do.

[Malithar]

like I said for the party situation it would be 3 or more chars going red simultaneously-likely from an AoE TP or spell. Well any main healer is going to hit up the tank 1st, then the DD, but WHICH dd, the war, the mnk, the sam? you can be down the depth list for that cure, and that isn't a bad backline, it's just too many DD to healers, and healers need to get MP even with refresh gear. If you are solo... well trust healers aren't always the quickest off the ball, if you are /dnc there are still stun and para effects (or even worse in that situation, TP reset). In other words, stuff happens but many DD, especially wars that I see do not come prepared for it. Then they blame the healer, or the stunner. Well sorry, but you may be 3-4 in the cure list. Oh, and the mob isn't sitting still while we are working our way to you. It's not backline malice or incompetence, we just have LOTS of stuff to do.

No, I'd blame the healer in that situation. There's a nifty line of spells called Curaga (or Ascension Cure IV) that work excellent in that very situation. You're there to DD, if equipping a -DT set isn't enough to save you, a shield will not push you over some magical threshold.

For what it's worth, I Whm occasionally, and I'd be annoyed if I saw a War bothering with a shield.

[Dale]

No, I'd blame the healer in that situation. There's a nifty line of spells called Curaga (or Ascension Cure IV) that work excellent in that very situation. You're there to DD, if equipping a -DT set isn't enough to save you, a shield will not push you over some magical threshold.

For what it's worth, I Whm occasionally, and I'd be annoyed if I saw a War bothering with a shield.

Why would seeing a Warrior using a shield annoy you?

[Atomic_Skull]

Why would seeing a Warrior using a shield annoy you?

Same reason seeing a THF using a sword annoys me I imagine.

[Malithar]

Why would seeing a Warrior using a shield annoy you?

Because they're clearly gearing for defense in situations (read; anything at all, ever) where it is not needed. As the Whm, I'd be annoyed that someone was being un-optimal for the role they were brought to, when they will not die. It's intentionally gimping yourself for 0 gain, only loss.

If it helps, think of it as "I don't trust you to keep me alive, so I'm going to intentionally do worse at the roll I was brought for in order to 'insure' my safety." 'Insure' because a shield will do jack all.

[Afania]

Why would seeing a Warrior using a shield annoy you?

Seeing a warrior using a shield wouldn't annoy me if there's a good reason, it's hard to find a good reason though.

[Dale]

Because they're clearly gearing for defense in situations (read; anything at all, ever) where it is not needed. As the Whm, I'd be annoyed that someone was being un-optimal for the role they were brought to, when they will not die. It's intentionally gimping yourself for 0 gain, only loss.

If it helps, think of it as "I don't trust you to keep me alive, so I'm going to intentionally do worse at the roll I was brought for in order to 'insure' my safety." 'Insure' because a shield will do jack all.

But that is just your opinion. And like you know what, everyone has one.

As long as you are winning the fight and the warrior with the shield isn't playing stupid or getting people killed - I see no legitimate reason to be annoyed by it. Seems to me you let silly things bother you. I have seen some very good warriors who go sword and board.

Also: I should point out there is a lot more to playing your job than just always doing damage. Any player who limits himself to such a small task is the one who is really gimping the group if you ask me. So I would agree with Glamdring. Players should expand their thought process and breadth of capabilities when possible. To always assume its the healer's job to keep you alive no matter in any situation is a good way to end up on the floor dead blaming others.

[Dale]

Seeing a warrior using a shield wouldn't annoy me if there's a good reason, it's hard to find a good reason though.

Again, you should be careful not to expect everyone else to live up to your own individual reasoning.

Just because you think there is no good reason to, doesn't mean everyone else does.