[Dev1235] Job Adjustments

[Atomic_Skull]

There are more update to THF coming soon this is just part of it.

I have watched THF get screwed over by SE for 12 years so I will believe it when I see it because I have never ever seen them come through for THF in the past.

[Afania]

So that sounds pretty good, yeah? Problem is that the vast majority of fights in all current content clock in at or below 30 seconds.

As far as I remember the only current content NM I ever done in sub 30 sec are:

Headwind zerg
T2 and T3 in yorcia delve
Some lower tier NM in delve1 can maybe hit close to 30 sec if your DDs are really good.

If your DDs are super elite maybe you can kill some delve1 NM in sub 30 sec, otherwise I don't see how "majority of the fights end in less than 30 sec" applicable to the majority.

If you mean fodder, personally I don't notice a difference between DDs on fodder, most of them die after 1 SC, as long as you can TP fast enough the difference aren't big. NM wise most of the NM in BC/incursion last well over 3 min.

[Afania]

It's not even a small loss either, if I recall correctly a heavy DD with a 119 weapon will be outdoing these jobs even with a mythic by at least 30%.

Define "Heavy DD", does that include delve2 weapon DRK and WAR? Cuz I'm not entirely convinced that those jobs can beat mythic THF NIN DNC by 30%.

[Glamdring]

Ok, so I’ve had a couple days to play with the update changes and some preliminary thoughts.

Summoner-Atomos is underwhelming. As posted elsewhere against normal mobs his absorb ability is just too slow. Since it doesn’t seem to work against boss-level mobs it is useless there. And of course as usual with absorb/dispel abilities it targets the least important one 1st. As to the Avatar’s Favor change, it just seems it would have been better to hold off until the other boosts SE are speaking of were ready to be rolled out at one time. The pet accuracy buff, thank you. Not to sound ungrateful but could we also get the much needed attack, defense, speed and evasion buffs as well?

Beastmaster-A+ axe isn’t that big of a change, we were still an A after all, but with pets incapable of tanking now even with the master spamming Snarl we might as well max out the master’s damage. We still need pets that match the proportional power of a 119 slug to a 119 beast, instead of a 111 slug to a 119 beast, and that’s WITH a 119 axe, 5/5 BA Merits and 119 Ankusa+1 gloves. The pet accuracy buff, thank you. Not to sound ungrateful but could we also get the much needed attack, defense, speed and evasion buffs as well?

Puppetmaster-I like the H2H boost, we aren’t infringing on Monk territory too much because we still don’t have the HP to take hits, no counters, etc. The pet accuracy buff, thank you. Not to sound ungrateful but could we also get the much needed attack, defense, speed and evasion buffs as well? As pointed out elsewhere we still need some work. Manuvers obviously have been a sticking point for years. In this case however my issue is more the Stormwalker auto, it’s time he cast on the rest of the party as well, like a real red mage. I like getting haste 2 but frankly there is more benefit from the Samurai getting it, other jobs need healing, phalanx, stoneskin, etc. You get the picture.

Dragoon- The pet accuracy buff, thank you. Not to sound ungrateful but could we also get the much needed attack, defense, speed and evasion buffs as well? And a means of calling shorter than 20 minutes, that is the big thing that keeps Drg out of end-game. 1 good AoE can 1-shot the pet and then half the job’s power is gone for 20 minutes? Not cool at all.

Blue mage-they are going to whine no matter how much you do for them, but frankly I think you did a lot. Mostly, they need more slots to go with adding 20 ilevels to the job, and a savable palette of spells-several sets-to speed changing in the field.

Dancer-there are many ways you could have gone to beef the job, unfortunately I think you picked the worst one. Steps every 5 seconds?! That barely gives them time to get the TP for the step you expect them to apply, and yet they are somehow to be healing and self-skillchaining and the like? Frankly, I just don’t see it. Now as I pointed out it adds utility to parties as you can have other jobs debuff other things-I’ll give a couple years for the slow learners to realize the difference between 1 and 2 options-but against normal mobs there isn’t the need and against boss mobs there are frankly better uses of a Dancer’s limited TP than just spamming steps. Of course the steps are needed for stunning. As to the A+ dagger, about time, hard to have the TP to cast cures and the like if you are whiffing all the time, and Reverse Flourish shouldn’t be your primary means of TP gain.

Thief-another group of whiners. Even with all the changes you just made to dancer do they REALLY believe a dancer is going to get their slot in a party? If so they are idiots, a primary dagger wielder is only getting into a party if they have TH6+, otherwise that slot is going to a monk, samurai or ranger and we all know it-and yes, I am a 119 thief. Now, you could fix things so thief enmity control is again viable-expecting players to moderate their damage output to allow a thief to function in that capacity is simply NOT going to happen and all the wishful thinking on the part of the Devs is not going to change that, accept it and develop accordingly. But thief’s party role is safe as long as no other job can pass TH3.

Now, I haven’t broken out my geo and my war and nin are only level 49 for sub purposes. All I can say is I haven’t heard any complaints from my friends on those jobs so I think you got those adjustments right. Nins and /nins are still complaining about shadows going down too fast and rightfully so if you ever mean blink-tanking to be viable again. War still seems awfully squishy to some for a heavy DD, but as I continually point out to them (and they can’t seem to grasp) when you gear for pure damage infliction you suffer on defense-the gear IS available, you are just choosing not to use it. And geo is still a royal pain in the butt to skill-up and I refuse to buy botting software to do it for me. Although God knows I am tempted...

[Selindrile]

Whines about the jobs I play that are behind the curve, then calls the people who play the jobs I don't that are behind the curve whiners.

Pet jobs do need a lot of help still, especially Bst.

Blu is still behind Mnk and Sam, but are ahead of, or on par with most of the rest of their competitors, I appreciate the effort but a lot of their fixes are off the mark, the only real benefit I appreciated from this update for Blu was now Barrier tusk is situationally useful, but I still won't use it often.

Thf still needs a lot of help, though Dnc needs more.

Admittedly I agree with most of Glamdring's points to be honest, it just rang very insincere to imply certain jobs' players were "whiners" any more than any other specific jobs' players, especially while whining about your own jobs.

[Pixela]

With these job changes I think RDM should of got some love too, maybe at the very least a boost to dark magic skill so they can reliably stun alongside the other jobs.

[Metaking]

@glamdring: buy pages and pop them with skill up food (the earring if you got it) and sakura out the seem to force higher skill gains off the pages, which getting .3-.5 it will blow by

@selindrie: im enjoying the boost to orchis for exp, and barrier tusk+ saline saved my bacon alot on a D titan, one of the runs went down, and things got .... intense >.>;

[Glamdring]

@metaking, I would but my sparks are in use stockpiling chapters for JSE... and I have 11 99 jobs, geo is #11 in my priority list-and will be falling as I'm leveling pld, sch and whm at the moment.

@sel, not whining about anything on those other jobs-ok, maybe at the miserable skill-up rate on geo, just as I did at smn skill, parry and guard and still do about shield. the pet jobs things had to do with the fact from the very start of SoA every single content addition has seen all pet jobs weakened, specifically in all the criteria I've mentioned-although the death of a wyvern has been discussed for years, and I still remember when calling wyvern was Drg's 2-hour. The only possible conclusion is that pet jobs are being deliberately nerfed but SE-despite almost 2 years passing has failed to state they were doing so, and I doubt they will now. So I'm calling them on their BS-if the jobs are to be as strong in relation to other jobs as they have historically been then all of that needs to be addressed, not just accuracy.

The whining mention was that for blu you got a bunch of new spells and some buffs to make play easier on the job, 2 updates in a row where blue concerns have been addressed, and pretty substantially at that. 19 other jobs got no help at all in that same time period, although at least 5 don't really need any help.

The thief remarks were because the rants have literally been asinine. NO primary dagger job is going to be invited to endgame for damage so dancer getting A+ means precisely diddly-squat. Thief will be invited because they have TH and mobs have drops, just as they were last week and just as they will be next week, that's it as currently built, but this update changed absolutely nothing for thief, contrary to those who think they just became less desirable. Everything dancer was given can still be done better, faster and easier by other jobs so you still won't be seeing them asked for in parties.

As to nin and warrior, these are observations. Warriors are squishy because they choose to be squishy; warrior defense is armor and shield based, SE has made the armor and shields, what they cannot do is force a warrior to put them on-or to use defender which they DID buff. Ninja, well if SE still means for them to be a tank it's the mechanism that allows them to be a tank that needs to be addressed, i.e. Shadows. If they are trying to transition them to something else like a DD/puller then I think there's still a good bit of work to do, but no question, Daken is a nice start on that. And let's face it, despite the ninjitsu out there being a nuker or an enfeebler is NOT a stand-out role for a ninja, hence why no one even brings that up. So I think even the ninjas would like a little clarity there.

[Camiie]

As to nin and warrior, these are observations. Warriors are squishy because they choose to be squishy; warrior defense is armor and shield based, SE has made the armor and shields, what they cannot do is force a warrior to put them on-or to use defender which they DID buff.

As a WAR I'm invited to do damage. Popping Defender and wearing a shield mean I'm no longer doing my assigned duty to the best of my ability. Fencer doesn't make up for the lack of a second axe if I'm going that route. Sure if I go axe/board and pop Defender I'll live longer if for no other reason than I'll quickly lose hate to the other DDs. Of course the mob will live longer too which will likely cause more death and chaos.

[Glamdring]

@Cam, there's nothing that prevents you switching to def gear when 3 of the party go red HP and popping defender to let the whm get some cures off though. But I was also speaking more to war soloing when I talk being squishy. You swap gear for everything else you do, why not to live the extra 6 seconds it will take the healer to get to you? and after all, how much damage are you going to contribute while dead or weakened?