Classic Server

[Alhanelem]

Lol, Alhanelem still going strong that anyone disagreeing with him is personally attacking him I see.

Actually, you're the one who's doing that, not me. You've branded anyone who disagrees you as wrong. I, on the contrary, have not done that. I have not declared anyone disagreeing with me in this thread as personally attacking me. Not once in this thread. Where you're getting that impression, I have no idea.

[mattkoko]

Actually, you're the one who's doing that, not me. You've branded anyone who disagrees you as wrong. I, on the contrary, have not done that. I have not declared anyone disagreeing with me in this thread as personally attacking me. Not once in this thread. Where you're getting that impression, I have no idea.

I know me and you have had our disagreements in the past but I just made this exact point in the other thread about bringing back classic servers. I have been trying to be nice about it but this is one of the main reasons I have not been joining the debate on these threads.

[nekrothing]

I know me and you have had our disagreements in the past but I just made this exact point in the other thread about bringing back classic servers. I have been trying to be nice about it but this is one of the main reasons I have not been joining the debate on these threads.

Most people that are against the idea of a classic server aren't basing their reasoning on logic or evidence. They're assuming a classic server wouldn't work because of how they feel about it. Whenever I mention the potential success of a classic server, my reasoning is based on some sort of established precedent, along with an article to substantiate my claims. For example...

1. "A classic server wouldn't be successful in today's market."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post524499

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...819#post524819

Lineage 2 found great success when adding subscription-based classic servers, more than anyone could've hoped. They only planned on having one, but ended up adding three due to popularity. Now they're expecting multiple international classic servers, doubling that number from three to six, and receiving tons of hype from the international community.

2. "It's just nostalgia. Nobody would be interested that type of gameplay anymore."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post525189

Dragon Quest X is identical in nearly every aspect to how this game used to play, right down to grinding experience in camps with other players. They've already surpassed the one million sales mark, and just recently, 3DS shipments had to be postponed because of how many players were logging on simultaneously.

[Zarchery]

Most people that are against the idea of a classic server aren't basing their reasoning on logic or evidence. They're assuming a classic server wouldn't work because of how they feel about it. Whenever I mention the potential success of a classic server, my reasoning is based on some sort of established precedent, along with an article to substantiate my claims. For example...

1. "A classic server wouldn't be successful in today's market."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post524499

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...819#post524819

Lineage 2 found great success when adding subscription-based classic servers, more than anyone could've hoped. They only planned on having one, but ended up adding three due to popularity. Now they're expecting multiple international classic servers, doubling that number from three to six, and receiving tons of hype from the international community.

You have to stop making this apples to oranges comparison. Every MMORPG is different. Lineage 2 is not equal to Final Fantasy 11. Just because they had a player base interested in their classic server doesn't mean this game will too.

Further, can classic Lineage 2 run on small server populations? Would the gameplay work as well on a population of 500 as it would on a population of 3000? Because FFXI sure can't.

2. "It's just nostalgia. Nobody would be interested that type of gameplay anymore."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post525189

Dragon Quest X is identical in nearly every aspect to how this game used to play, right down to grinding experience in camps with other players. They've already surpassed the one million sales mark, and just recently, 3DS shipments had to be postponed because of how many players were logging on simultaneously.

Dragon Quest 10 has high subscription numbers for the same reason classic FFXI had high subscription numbers: it's new. I guarantee you that in 10 years its numbers won't be anywhere near where it is now.

This cry for a classic server is a lot like a pyramid scheme--it relies on unrealistically optimistic projections. A pyramid scheme will make some grandiose claim like "If you send this E-Mail out to 8,000 people and they all send you $5, that's $40,000 cash! But that's if everyone does it, so let's just assume a much more conservative 1 in 8 people will send the money! That's still $5,000 and you can do it over and over!" Except 1 in 8 people won't forward the stupid chain E-Mail; virtually nobody will.

And it's like that with this classic server idea. The proponents figure some bold estimate of 10% of existing players will move, plus it'll entice players who quit to return, and somehow you'll have huge numbers. But these are huge "ifs". We have, what, half a dozen proponents of this idea on this board? Classic FFXI required thousands of players to work. Average population at a given time was around 3,000 people. There's what, 17 active servers now? On a good day, you get 1,000 people online. That's 17,000 players total on a good day If you take the excessively optimistic projection of 10%, that's still only 1700 players, and I strongly doubt you'd get that. Even then, I'd bet you anything the novelty wears off quickly.

[PlumbGame]

You have to stop making this apples to oranges comparison. Every MMORPG is different. Lineage 2 is not equal to Final Fantasy 11. Just because they had a player base interested in their classic server doesn't mean this game will too.

Further, can classic Lineage 2 run on small server populations? Would the gameplay work as well on a population of 500 as it would on a population of 3000? Because FFXI sure can't.

Dragon Quest 10 has high subscription numbers for the same reason classic FFXI had high subscription numbers: it's new. I guarantee you that in 10 years its numbers won't be anywhere near where it is now.

I think you are missing the implication. He isn't saying it is guaranteed to work, because that would be silly. Everything in life has chance to fail. What do you base you ideas off though? When trying to argue ideas, you tend to base it off someone else success. Why do you think there is so many WoW clones? Why do you think there is also WoW clones that fail? What do you suppose people for the idea would base there opinions off of? Do you hope they come into this thread, say they want it, and anyone can F off (almost similar to what the people say who are against it)? No, they provide concrete evidence of other games success rates for said things that supposedly no one wants. Does it mean it will work? Not necessarily, but you need some grounds to base the idea that this could be successful. He also clearly pointed out his intention in the beginning of his post with provided evidence, while again, every single person that has been against the idea so far hasn't provided anything valid against the idea or anything at all to support there claims (which isn't necessarily their burden of proof, but there is some strong opinions against this idea, you would think there would be more support than just their opinion). That is more-or-less where he is going with his post.

Besides trying to clarify what I felt he is trying to say, that really is what it comes down to, is how big can you get a pop on these servers, and sadly, there is no way to get accurate results from these forums. FFXI (imo) would not be the same if only a pop of 500 would to play on a server like this, hell, even a pop of what most the servers currently see I don't think would be very successful. That being said, that is another reason there is links to other companies doing such things to show that it is possible. I know from my own experience playing on EQ's progression servers that the pop was vastly larger on these servers vs a normal server. Also note that EQ is older than FFXI and they had a 4k+ pop of users online almost 24/7, actually I think it was even higher, so they had to open up a new server just to compensate for the overflow.

[nekrothing]

Even then, I'd bet you anything the novelty wears off quickly.

Your conjecture was very interesting, thank you.

Now, if you would be so kind as to validate your claims with sources.

[Zarchery]

Your conjecture was very interesting, thank you.

Now, if you would be so kind as to validate your claims with sources.

You want me to cite sources to support a purely hypothetical thing that never actually happened?

We're all conjecturing here, difference is that I don't pretend mine is backed by facts. You keep saying "Classic FFXI would work because Classic Lineage worked". Which makes no sense. Lineage != Final Fantasy 11. It's like... Sex and the City was a hugely popular TV show. Then it went off the air. Two knockoff series then followed--Lipstick Jungle and Cashmere Mafia. Both failed miserably. But your mode of thinking dictates that they should have succeeded, because Sex and the City was popular.

[PlumbGame]

You want me to cite sources to support a purely hypothetical thing that never actually happened?

We're all conjecturing here, difference is that I don't pretend mine is backed by facts. You keep saying "Classic FFXI would work because Classic Lineage worked". Which makes no sense. Lineage != Final Fantasy 11. It's like... Sex and the City was a hugely popular TV show. Then it went off the air. Two knockoff series then followed--Lipstick Jungle and Cashmere Mafia. Both failed miserably. But your mode of thinking dictates that they should have succeeded, because Sex and the City was popular.

Again, this is faulty logic when you use a simile of something of no relevance. You would of been better comparing WoW knock offs that failed, which is also an entirely different reasoning. It isn't just Lineage that has been pointed out in these threads also, there has been several different success stories. One of which is almost similar in all aspects except the job system which is EQ. There is also a "more probable than not" basis when you look at supporting evidence of the facts, which he is saying that he has provided. He is basically asking what supporting evidence do you guys have to validate the supposed failures that exist with something like this. There hasn't been anything provided, so how can we determine based off of known information that it would fail, because the known information that has been provided shows that something like this would succeed rather than not. That's to not say that it would, but like I said, "more probable than not".

[nekrothing]

You want me to cite sources to support a purely hypothetical thing that never actually happened?

I'm providing a logical basis for my reasoning based on empirical evidence. Your personal beliefs are the basis for your conjecture, which are neither rational nor valid.

If you're going to suggest that a classic server won't be successful, I'm going to need more than "because I said so, here are some hypothetical examples I made up." Without validating your claims by citing relevant sources to establish a logical basis for your reasoning, your argument has no solid foundation to stand on.