Classic Server

[ruzoko]

The thing is, Plumb doesn't either. He's just declaring people to be wrong with no basis.

Internet petitions are highly abuseable and I put no stake in them whatsoever. Since posting here requires a game account and you have to buy more copies of the game to have more accounts, vote padding is far less likely. Internet Petitions are also not scientific and do not prove anything.

Again, I'm not against the concept of the idea itself, but rather i object to the potential disruption it would cause to current players enjoying the current game in its current state. I also highly doubt that even the people on this petition supporting the idea would come back for very long if the "old" server didn't get content updates (if it did, it would eventually return to where we are now and render the whole thing pointless)- and if it got content updates, that would hamper the progress of the main game. So the only way this can happen is if the dev team is suddenly given more resources to work with than they have currently. Even if you have 1000 people who say will definitely play on a retro server, they may all play at different times and the number of simultaneous users will be quite low, and they will have the same problem.

To truly make this work, you'd need overwhelming support from the entire current and former playerbase. If even the official forum community isn't rallying behind it, I just don't see that happening, no matter how many signatures you have on an off-site petition.

(in before someone just declares me to be "wrong" with no real basis).

Again, whos to say it would affect the current players servers at all? As for how far the updates to this classic server would go obviously it would have to be well thought out seeing as those who support it do not want an ilvl system nor Abyssea put in, so as far as that goes may as well do away with Abyssea and SoA keeping the other content added to old zones, ex: meebles WoE etc..and again MANY players dont even bother with forums I personally find these forums nothing more than a troll fest where people mock one another while some debate is actually worth the time. I am merely here to do some support for the game due to the fact i did enjoy the old ways, and yes the petition is abuseable obviously with Cloud, Jack, and Mr. Rice on there. however, the amount of support it can potentially gain that are authentic people is greater than those who would bother with these forums again, stating it usually isn't worth the time to get on these. Wether or not this server comes to be will highly weigh on few factors.
1. SE's profit in it, (they wont risk a loss of $$$ that's for sure)
2. The amount of people that would actually go to this server (highly variable considering there is definitely over 1k people who support this idea, but wont bother to support using the same excuses of SE hasn't the money, not enough people etc, but fact is ONLY SE can say wether they do or do not have the resources to do so and will act accordingly. As well as you stated saying you do not want the current group who enjoy FFXI as is to be disrupted, again only SE can say what they can or can not do. (would be nice for a dev to poke in just to answer that question to alleviate that matter and take that worry off some people's shoulders)

[ruzoko]

This is why, for me, it comes down to an issue of development resources. There are undoubtedly some people who at worst would want to reminisce, and at best would regularly want to play an old version. The question is if it's realistically plausible for the devs to implement this. I'm honestly expecting a community rep to come in here and say "There are currently no plans". I totally wouldn't mind being suprised though- If they did say they would do it, then that tells me (hopefully) they have the resources or can get the additional resources required.

Agreed, would be nice for a Dev to say yay or nay to this or at least give us some comment on their opinion, many players as i said stay at bay from this idea with the excuses i posted a few minutes ago, despite actually wanting it.
(broke quote lol)

[Alhanelem]

Again, whos to say it would affect the current players servers at all?

It absolutely would affect them. i'm not speaking about populations, I'm speaking about division of development resources). The fact is they cannot conjure a server out of thin air. Some number of people would have to commit some amount of time to make this happen. It's not something that can be done by just snapping fingers. THere are logistical issues, web issues (setting up the site for world transfers, etc), and hardware issues (installing new server hardware).

1. SE's profit in it, (they wont risk a loss of $$$ that's for sure)

This isn't a guaranteed profit proposition. It will cost them money to set up- if not enough people resubscribe because of it, or buy new character slots because of it, etc, it will not outweigh the setup and development costs. SE would certainly need to do a cost-benefit analysis before doing something like this.

Agreed, would be nice for a Dev to say yay or nay to this or at least give us some comment on their opinion, many players as i said stay at bay from this idea with the excuses i posted a few minutes ago, despite actually wanting it.
(broke quote lol)

Well, I'm happy we have an understanding here. That's really my main concern. If they devs indicate they can overcome that, then I'm all for it. I won't participate in it, but I don't want to rain all over another person's enjoyment.

[ruzoko]

When I look at people who quit 5+ years ago though, I don't see them as having left and not returned "because abyssea" or "because insert feature here is no good", because they haven't experienced those contents. If they don't like them, it's merely a perception given to them by word of mouth, and not based on actual experience. So with all due respect, how do you know people who quit a long time ago wouldn't like the game now? You may think they wouldn't, and that's fine, but that's an opinion not a fact.

It is opinion with this matter, I myself played from 2005-2013 quitting a month or so after SoA was released, the game met its death with how it was done and with the release of ARR, its alive somewhat but a mere shell of its former glory, more based for the casual player.

[ruzoko]

It absolutely would affect them. i'm not speaking about populations, I'm speaking about division of development resources). The fact is they cannot conjure a server out of thin air. Some number of people would have to commit some amount of time to make this happen. It's not something that can be done by just snapping fingers. THere are logistical issues, web issues (setting up the site for world transfers, etc), and hardware issues (installing new server hardware).

This isn't a guaranteed profit proposition. It will cost them money to set up- if not enough people resubscribe because of it, or buy new character slots because of it, etc, it will not outweigh the setup and development costs. SE would certainly need to do a cost-benefit analysis before doing something like this.

Well, I'm happy we have an understanding here. That's really my main concern. If they devs indicate they can overcome that, then I'm all for it. I won't participate in it, but I don't want to rain all over another person's enjoyment.

Well, still the amount of impact on the current FFXI would be hard to know, as i said the development of a new server would indeed take time to setup and such but as far as the actual progression of said server unlike the current there will be a point the content will hit a stand still as thats where the limit to what players on a casual server want. (unless SE tosses in more side things akin to meeble BCNMS etc) sadly nobody can say for sure how much resources SE even has only they can say if its enough or too little so the argument there isnt something to really debate. If SE can do it they will if not they will say so lol

[Natasha]

It absolutely would affect them. i'm not speaking about populations, I'm speaking about division of development resources). The fact is they cannot conjure a server out of thin air. Some number of people would have to commit some amount of time to make this happen. It's not something that can be done by just snapping fingers. THere are logistical issues, web issues (setting up the site for world transfers, etc), and hardware issues (installing new server hardware).

This isn't a guaranteed profit proposition. It will cost them money to set up- if not enough people resubscribe because of it, or buy new character slots because of it, etc, it will not outweigh the setup and development costs. SE would certainly need to do a cost-benefit analysis before doing something like this.

Well, I'm happy we have an understanding here. That's really my main concern. If they devs indicate they can overcome that, then I'm all for it. I won't participate in it, but I don't want to rain all over another person's enjoyment.

No, there is no solid basis for it having an impact on the other player base. You are assuming the development resources are finite and cannot be expanded for any reason. Could it impact them? yes. But if there is a solid base that wants this then they have just as much right to development resources as any other group playing no? As for hardware, they already have it. Players have been wanting server merges to bump average populations up for quite some time now and they could do this then use the hardware for the servers removed to make this server (hence no new added hardware). Transfers would not be able to be made to this server, if they did it would be minimal at best (only things like quest progress and levels/crafts would be transferable and would have to be cut off at 75, its better just to not allow them). The very reason I am asking for a SERVER is to avoid having to fight over what is best for the game with people. I'd rather have people like Draylo have the game they want and let the devs go where they will with development of the game while keeping things classic players want on a separate server where they don't interfere with each-other.

Also, there really isn't an option on the petition. It was suggested by someone in this thread so I went ahead and made it. Its better than nothing as this forum has very few active members and most of them are those that are ok with the changes made (as evidenced by the fact they're still here). If you have a suggestion to make it better, feel free to let me know.

[Alhanelem]

No, there is no solid basis for it having an impact on the other player base. You are assuming the development resources are finite and cannot be expanded for any reason.

On the contrary, there is a very solid basis and I very clearly explained it. It takes resources. There is no denying that. The exact amount can be debated all day but that's not important to the point. They can't wave a magic wand and instantly have more resources. They would at a minimum probably have to hire additional personnel, which means additional costs for a certain amount of time with no increase in income until the venture is completed. This isn't some made up thing i'm conjuring up, it's basic business concepts for the industry.

Yes, they can expand their resources if their analysis determines that a certain increase in income will be achieved. But they can't realistically do that until the money starts coming in. There will be at a minimum, a short term impact on normal game development. Whether or not there will be a long term impact depends on how successful the venture is.

I'd rather have people like Draylo have the game they want and let the devs go where they will with development of the game

I feel like you're arguing with me for no clear reason. This is my sentiment as well. I won't be joining such a server, but I'm totally not opposed to it existing *as long as it doesn't compromise development on the current game*. We can really argue all day about whether or not it would, but in the end, it's SE that needs to analyze the costs, benefits, potential and pitfalls, and come to their own conclusion about that. Until then, the only thing any of us can offer is conjecture.

[Natasha]

On the contrary, there is a very solid basis and I very clearly explained it. It takes resources. There is no denying that. The exact amount can be debated all day but that's not important to the point. They can't wave a magic wand and instantly have more resources. They would at a minimum probably have to hire additional personnel, which means additional costs for a certain amount of time with no increase in income until the venture is completed. This isn't some made up thing i'm conjuring up, it's basic business concepts for the industry.

Yes, they can expand their resources if their analysis determines that a certain increase in income will be achieved. But they can't realistically do that until the money starts coming in. There will be at a minimum, a short term impact on normal game development. Whether or not there will be a long term impact depends on how successful the venture is.

What you clearly explained is that it takes resources, this is not in debate. What is in debate is that they cannot expand their resource pool for such a project if needed which would negate the impact of the additional cost. You say that like SE is not known for doing such things when that is exactly what they did with FFXIV, XIV was a gigantic money and resource suck and they poured tons into it. Yes they expected a return but they didn't expect a giant one, the decision was motivated highly by the idea that the final fantasy brand is important and the need to support it. The same thing here, they could easily expand on the budget for the game until the completion of this project if they chose to do so.

[Stompa]

As an example of differing perspectives creating different views about how good the game was and is: I hated this. It's not as fun when the stuff you farmed years ago is still the best, because then you don't get the buzz and excietment of finding new rewards, because rarely do you find anything new that is better (and inventory frustration made me hate the deluge of "sidegrades").

Well, I wanted to stay lvl 75 but have new lvl 75 gear, new areas, new mobs, new NMs etc. And the inventory space could still have been expanded so you had lots of lvl 75 stuff and space to store it.

Again this was my point, you need to make a distinction between how the game was with the inventory problems etc. and say well we could have had those improvements without adding the ilvl mousewheel that you will run in for all eternity. We could have stayed 75 and had the old levelling system, while still adding uber new 75 gear, lots of new areas and NMs etc. and inventory space / movement speed / etc. It is possible to like the increased inventory and to like the movement speed etc. without liking ilvl mousewheel gear with built-in obsolescence. I would sooner camp a new NM that drops a lvl 75 weapon I can use situationally for years, than pour 20m gil skirmish stones into randomly generated augments, for a weapon that will be /tossed in a few months when the new better stuff arrives.

I don't mind criticising the old FFXI at all, I can list things that were wrong with the old game all day long. But some things were good and I personally think the lvl 75 cap and the traditional party levelling were good things.

[PlumbGame]

Lol, Alhanelem still going strong that anyone disagreeing with him is personally attacking him I see.