"THe Development Team Does Not Currently Have Plans Too..."

[Afania]

All the campaigns only benefit people who do the content and people who are playing during the campaign. This example is no different from any other campaign in that respect and requires far less code than some.

I don't think you get my point, campaigns are just bonus, not an in game issue that requires a fix. It is not a big deal if SE didn't respond properly for requests like this.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't think you get my point, campaigns are just bonus, not an in game issue that requires a fix. It is not a big deal if SE didn't respond properly for requests like this.

That's probably because you didn't make that point. The reason people are demanding a response to this thread has nothing to do with campaigns. It has to do with the canned response of "we have no plans..." used in almost every thread that the devs respond to. Which, should be evident because it is in the title of the thread.

As for jobs not being judged based on whether they are shouted for... That actually matters. Until DRG, SMN, THF, PUP, BLM, etc. can solo all delve, AA, Skirmish, etc content it will be an issue. Being awesome at content that no one will do with you is not a helpful change to any job unless it allows you to do the content without other people.

[Afania]

As for jobs not being judged based on whether they are shouted for... That actually matters. Until DRG, SMN, THF, PUP, BLM, etc. can solo all delve, AA, Skirmish, etc content it will be an issue. Being awesome at content that no one will do with you is not a helpful change to any job unless it allows you to do the content without other people.

I don't think you get my point....my point is that many jobs are actually very useful in current content, just that nobody /shout for them. Most of the time, the reason why nobody /shout for them is not because the job suck, but ppl don't know what can the job do.

Also WoE isn't "content no one would do", there are more ppl doing WoE than delve if you sea all WoE zones v.s delve zones.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't think you get my point....my point is that many jobs are actually very useful in current content, just that nobody /shout for them. Most of the time, the reason why nobody /shout for them is not because the job suck, but ppl don't know what can the job do.

Also WoE isn't "content no one would do", there are more ppl doing WoE than delve if you sea all WoE zones v.s delve zones.

I know what your point was. But if no one wants them in their group, then it doesn't really matter how good they are. Being awesome at something that takes six people doesn't help much if you can't find 5 other people to do it with.

It's definitely a community perception problem, but it's still a problem none the less. It takes more than just being good enough. In order to break the perception, the job needs to actually excel at something important to the content.

And before anyone says "Just form your own group..."

That has never solved the problem with the greater community seeing X job as inferior and it never will.

[Bebekeke]

I know what your point was. But if no one wants them in their group, then it doesn't really matter how good they are. Being awesome at something that takes six people doesn't help much if you can't find 5 other people to do it with.

It's definitely a community perception problem, but it's still a problem none the less. It takes more than just being good enough. In order to break the perception, the job needs to actually excel at something important to the content.

And before anyone says "Just form your own group..."

That has never solved the problem with the greater community seeing X job as inferior and it never will.

Basically, the first group to complete X content posts on BG their setup, and from then on, that is the setup that everyone uses. Until someone else joins a PUG created by a person playing a job outside of that cookie cutter setup, and goes back to thye forums saying "ZOMG we just did it with this setup and completed it in half the time!" then nobody will ever shout for other jobs.

It's like RDM stunners, for example.

Delve content was always SCH stunners only.

Always.

So much so that despite the fact that it's now a few months since people have proven that RDM is actually better than SCH at stunning (since haste 2 was released, I assume) it's still very common to see shouts for SCH only.

[Selindrile]

So much so that despite the fact that it's now a few months since people have proven that RDM is actually better than SCH at stunning (since haste 2 was released, I assume) it's still very common to see shouts for SCH only.

For what it's worth, I haven't seen a Sch stunner shout in ages, everyone here shouts for Rdm, second off, Sch is still better for stunning one for one because alacrity = 4s recast Rdm can only get it down to 8s, Rdm just takes one less march to do it, and can give others haste2 as well, and has dia3, so people tend to prefer that here on Fenrir.

[Glamdring]

Basically, the first group to complete X content posts on BG their setup, and from then on, that is the setup that everyone uses. Until someone else joins a PUG created by a person playing a job outside of that cookie cutter setup, and goes back to thye forums saying "ZOMG we just did it with this setup and completed it in half the time!" then nobody will ever shout for other jobs.

It's like RDM stunners, for example.

Delve content was always SCH stunners only.

Always.

So much so that despite the fact that it's now a few months since people have proven that RDM is actually better than SCH at stunning (since haste 2 was released, I assume) it's still very common to see shouts for SCH only.

I generally agree with you except that I've seen ALOT of new content introduced over the years first beaten with all or mostly pet jobs, it's safer, but it tends to be slow. So it's more the 1st strategy that doesn't involve throwing pets at it until you get a win that gets picked up and made into the cookie cutter. But as the pet jobs DID beat it, clearly there are other ways to go-as you suggested rdm in place of Sch is viable, other DD can clearly be subbed for some that are invited, a cor in place of a ranger actually gives both buffs AND ranged damage if you can get them to use their gun, a geo in place of a bard gives weaker buffs but increases damage output from that party slot, etc. There are usually alternatives, they just aren't as fast, and they may require the players to know what they are doing in their button-mashing but it can be done. Look at surge WoE right now, the job of choice is summoner, but I expect once people find viable alternatives that won't remain the case because it's a pet/magic job and the melee don't like that. Incidentally, mages also do quite nicely in those as well.

[Afania]

I know what your point was. But if no one wants them in their group, then it doesn't really matter how good they are. Being awesome at something that takes six people doesn't help much if you can't find 5 other people to do it with.

It's definitely a community perception problem, but it's still a problem none the less. It takes more than just being good enough. In order to break the perception, the job needs to actually excel at something important to the content.

And before anyone says "Just form your own group..."

That has never solved the problem with the greater community seeing X job as inferior and it never will.

Most of the job excel at something, it's just not in /shout due to several many reasons that's more than job performance.

I'd want a good BLM BLU for events like incursion, but I don't /shout for them because I probably won't get any /tell, even if I doubt it's going to be well geared unless the player is BLM or BLU main, since it's not exactly worth the effort to gear up a less popular job. I don't want to /shout for some unpopular job for 2hr and get someone not geared properly.

That being said, if someone send a /tell saying "My X job has very good gear, I know what I'm doing and I can contribute in event", I would accept it.

Even you admit this isn't job issue, this is community issue. Certain job isn't popular--->nobody /shout for them------>nobody bother to send /tell and get their favorite job into the pt--->nobody gear them properly because it's not worth the effort----->even less leaders bother to /shout for them....the vicious circle continues.


Although SE can make the job actually required(which is different from "can get the job done") to do the event, like what they did to VW proc system. But personally I think VW proc system is the 2nd worst game mechanic in FFXI, second to abyssea proc system. Now that most servers avg 300~600 players on NA time, do you enjoy /shout for 2hr for an unpopular job like NIN RUN DNC just to do an event? I don't.

If jobs aren't required to do the content, every PUG would /shout for easiest PUG setup, or jobs that's the easiest to gear, regardless of the job's performance. There are no way out of this.

If jobs are required to do the content, let's /shout for 2hr for 1 single job to fill up the role.

I'd rather /shout for the easiest setup instead of /shout for 2hr in FFXI any day.