"THe Development Team Does Not Currently Have Plans Too..."

[Afania]

In no way do I agree either that a mythic should be a requirement to join a standard PUG, if however that PUG is shouting for specific gear for say VD content then yes that perfectly reasonable.

If every SAM from PUG owns a Koga, then it'd be a requirement/standard to PUG.

Don't worry. They can still spend the rest of their lives getting afterglow.

You are ignoring the fact that mythics already exist. There is minimal effort required to change to quest requirements and or drop rates. This isn't an either or case. They change drop rates all the

So afterglow sucks but you think it's ok, mythic sucks but you think it's not ok? Double standard.

You're also ignoring the fact that making mythics easier to obtain doesn't extend the life of this game, while it still needs time to adjust. Whoever's currently building one(the ones that's done with every other goals in this game) would just finish one sooner and quit. Whoever that's not hardcore enough to run out of things to do still get stuff to do regardless mythic being easy or not.

[FrankReynolds]

If every SAM from PUG owns a Koga, then it'd be a requirement/standard to PUG.

If they started giving out kogas for a million gil tomorrow, people would still take a JSE or Tsurumaru sam to w/e content without batting an eye as long as the rest of their gear was up to par.

So afterglow sucks but you think it's ok, mythic sucks but you think it's not ok? Double standard.

Not really. But you said you wanted something dumb to waste a few billion gil on.

You're also ignoring the fact that making mythics easier to obtain doesn't extend the life of this game, while it still needs time to adjust. Whoever's currently building one(the ones that's done with every other goals in this game) would just finish one sooner and quit. Whoever that's not hardcore enough to run out of things to do still get stuff to do regardless mythic being easy or not.

I have a bunch of mythic owners and multiple mythic owners in my shell. I don't know anyone who would quit if they could have more. For every guy who says he would quit if his mugeleis were too easy to obtain, there's another 10 guys who say they would build 5 more if it didn't suck so much.

[Afania]

If they started giving out kogas for a million gil tomorrow, people would still take a JSE or Tsurumaru sam to w/e content without batting an eye as long as the rest of their gear was up to par.

Nah, if you think ppl would invite JSE or Tsurumaru SAM when 50% of playerbase owns koga, you're either delusional or don't know MMO mentality.

JSE and Tsuru isn't "on par" of koga, it's inferior to koga. There's a hierarchy in 119 weapons and currently Koga is top, followed by Tsuru.

When PUG make a pt, they tend to invite DD with top weapon, regardless the gap being 1% or 5%.

Whenever I /shout for 1 119 SAM for delve, I often get 5 /tell within 1 min. If I don't know any of the SAM in /tell, I'd have to pick one out of 5 to join the pt.

Since I don't know any of them, nor how well they play, the only difference that would affect the choice is.....the weapon.

When a pt lead got 3 Tsuru SAM /tell and 2 JSE SAM /tell, the JSE SAM is automatically out, because Tsuru is better.

If the lead got 2 Koga SAM /tell and 3 Tsuru SAM /tell, all the Tsuru SAM would be filtered out as well, because Koga is better.

Atm Tsuru SAM can still get a spot because it's unlikely that you can get a Koga SAM in /tell. If you get 10 Koga SAM /tell after every shout, you seriously think Tsuru SAM can get a chance? Only if the Tsuru SAM get better skill/connection than Koga.

I have a bunch of mythic owners and multiple mythic owners in my shell. I don't know anyone who would quit if they could have more. For every guy who says he would quit if his mugeleis were too easy to obtain, there's another 10 guys who say they would build 5 more if it didn't suck so much.

Ok, so you have friends that'd build 10 more Mythics if they can and wouldn't quit the game after it's done, then it doesn't matter if they can only build 1 or 10, they'd keep playing anyways.

So what's the point to adjust the requirement so they can build 10 mythics? They still gonna keep playing even with 1 mythic.



For the entire thread, all the argument supporting easier mythics are based on "I want", instead of what makes a better game.

"I want easier mythic so I can build one before I quit and play with it!"

"I want easier mythic so I can build 10 mythics! Gonna collect them all!"

"I want easier mythic because we'd have happier world if everyone can get a mythic!"

IMO, everyone owning 10 mythics doesn't make the game better, it only satisfy some player's short term instant gratification, and force the player without mythic to build one to be on par, even if they don't want to.

tl;dr:

Mythic should be obtainable by minority, maybe 5% or 10% of the playerbase. So it wouldn't be a requirement to play the job.

Majority of players should only be able to obtain 1~2 mythics, but not 20 mythics. So when you finish a mythic, it actually meant something.

That is what mythic should be, a long term goal that feels like an accomplishment when it's done. If you only enjoy collecting 20 weapons in a very short time, just go collect delve2/JSE weapons.

[Arbalest]

Nah, if you think ppl would invite JSE or Tsurumaru SAM when 50% of playerbase owns koga, you're either delusional or don't know MMO mentality.

JSE and Tsuru isn't "on par" of koga, it's inferior to koga. There's a hierarchy in 119 weapons and currently Koga is top, followed by Tsuru.

When PUG make a pt, they tend to invite DD with top weapon, regardless the gap being 1% or 5%.

Whenever I /shout for 1 119 SAM for delve, I often get 5 /tell within 1 min. If I don't know any of the SAM in /tell, I'd have to pick one out of 5 to join the pt.

Since I don't know any of them, nor how well they play, the only difference that would affect the choice is.....the weapon.

When a pt lead got 3 Tsuru SAM /tell and 2 JSE SAM /tell, the JSE SAM is automatically out, because Tsuru is better.

If the lead got 2 Koga SAM /tell and 3 Tsuru SAM /tell, all the Tsuru SAM would be filtered out as well, because Koga is better.

Atm Tsuru SAM can still get a spot because it's unlikely that you can get a Koga SAM in /tell. If you get 10 Koga SAM /tell after every shout, you seriously think Tsuru SAM can get a chance? Only if the Tsuru SAM get better skill/connection than Koga.







Ok, so you have friends that'd build 10 more Mythics if they can and wouldn't quit the game after it's done, then it doesn't matter if they can only build 1 or 10, they'd keep playing anyways.

So what's the point to adjust the requirement so they can build 10 mythics? They still gonna keep playing even with 1 mythic.



For the entire thread, all the argument supporting easier mythics are based on "I want", instead of what makes a better game.

"I want easier mythic so I can build one before I quit and play with it!"

"I want easier mythic so I can build 10 mythics! Gonna collect them all!"

"I want easier mythic because we'd have happier world if everyone can get a mythic!"

IMO, everyone owning 10 mythics doesn't make the game better, it only satisfy some player's short term instant gratification, and force the player without mythic to build one to be on par, even if they don't want to.

tl;dr:

Mythic should be obtainable by minority, maybe 5% or 10% of the playerbase. So it wouldn't be a requirement to play the job.

Majority of players should only be able to obtain 1~2 mythics, but not 20 mythics. So when you finish a mythic, it actually meant something.

That is what mythic should be, a long term goal that feels like an accomplishment when it's done. If you only enjoy collecting 20 weapons in a very short time, just go collect delve2/JSE weapons.

I've partied with a few Koga and Amano SAMs while I'm just a lousy Tsuru SAM; and I've parsed higher than them by a fairly wide margin.

The weapon doesn't automatically make the player good.

[Afania]

I've partied with a few Koga and Amano SAMs while I'm just a lousy Tsuru SAM; and I've parsed higher than them by a fairly wide margin.

The weapon doesn't automatically make the player good.

FYI Amano isn't as good as Tsuru in delve afaik.

When you /shout and got 5 /tell from strangers that you have 0 experience about their playing skill, how else can you make a choice? Either /random or pick DD with better gears.

"I've outparse mythic with delve weapon" isn't a legit argument when you're gambling with PUG DD. Tsuru can outpuarse Koga is just like how Koga can outparse Tsuru, and there's a slightly higher chance with koga parse higher.

Edit: My LS mate made a /shout yorcia pt yesterday and hit a jack pot with a tsuru SAM using Koki entire run. At least Koga gets kasha which ensures your PUG SAM won't use koki in yorcia.

[FrankReynolds]

Nah, if you think ppl would invite JSE or Tsurumaru SAM when 50% of playerbase owns koga, you're either delusional or don't know MMO mentality.

JSE and Tsuru isn't "on par" of koga, it's inferior to koga. There's a hierarchy in 119 weapons and currently Koga is top, followed by Tsuru.

When PUG make a pt, they tend to invite DD with top weapon, regardless the gap being 1% or 5%.

Whenever I /shout for 1 119 SAM for delve, I often get 5 /tell within 1 min. If I don't know any of the SAM in /tell, I'd have to pick one out of 5 to join the pt.

Since I don't know any of them, nor how well they play, the only difference that would affect the choice is.....the weapon.

When a pt lead got 3 Tsuru SAM /tell and 2 JSE SAM /tell, the JSE SAM is automatically out, because Tsuru is better.

If the lead got 2 Koga SAM /tell and 3 Tsuru SAM /tell, all the Tsuru SAM would be filtered out as well, because Koga is better.

Atm Tsuru SAM can still get a spot because it's unlikely that you can get a Koga SAM in /tell. If you get 10 Koga SAM /tell after every shout, you seriously think Tsuru SAM can get a chance? Only if the Tsuru SAM get better skill/connection than Koga.

The content dictates. Not the gear. People don't really demand that you have a specific weapon for most things these days because the content doesn't require it. Content should't be built around these weapons anyways. You're trying to solve a problem with inaccessible content by cutting people off from even more content.

Ok, so you have friends that'd build 10 more Mythics if they can and wouldn't quit the game after it's done, then it doesn't matter if they can only build 1 or 10, they'd keep playing anyways.

So what's the point to adjust the requirement so they can build 10 mythics? They still gonna keep playing even with 1 mythic.

I could reverse that and say that your imaginary friend who is gonna quit if the most tedious quest line in the game is made slightly less tedious is really not gonna quit. It's not hard content. It's not even all that interesting at this point. It just takes a looooong time. If just doing something that takes a long time is what you want, then do it twice. I don't think anyone has them all yet. Go be that guy.

For the entire thread, all the argument supporting easier mythics are based on "I want", instead of what makes a better game.

So how exactly is putting a bunch of stuff in the game that 90% of the players don't do good for the game?

and force the player without mythic to build one to be on par, even if they don't want to.

You could say that about anything. I heard a guy complain about how expensive the JSE GK is. He didn't want to spend all that money just to be on par. Such is life.

tl;dr:

Mythic should be obtainable by minority, maybe 5% or 10% of the playerbase. So it wouldn't be a requirement to play the job.

Or, you know.... They could just not release content that requires it.

Majority of players should only be able to obtain 1~2 mythics, but not 20 mythics.

Why? so that you have to shout longer to find the guy who built the 2 you need in your group?

So when you finish a mythic, it actually meant something.

That is what mythic should be, a long term goal that feels like an accomplishment when it's done. If you only enjoy collecting 20 weapons in a very short time, just go collect delve2/JSE weapons.

I did. And it felt good.

[Malithar]

The content dictates. Not the gear. People don't really demand that you have a specific weapon for most things these days because the content doesn't require it. Content should't be built around these weapons anyways. You're trying to solve a problem with inaccessible content by cutting people off from even more content.

[...]

Why? so that you have to shout longer to find the guy who built the 2 you need in your group?

What content gives you the impression that mythics are needed for anything? It's the nature of the player base, not the content. Or did you think VW required RMEs? Delve requires RMEs? Skirmish requires RMEs? Normal BCs require RMEs? All listed are things I've seen people shout for hours at times, looking for x job with mythic, for no real good reason at all.

It's as Afania said, when someone makes a pug, they go for the top end. What he didn't go into detail about and where most pugs go wrong is they demand the top end. That doesn't mean the content needs it, that's just the player base's mentality of "go with the highest chance to succeed." And as he said, when pugging, outside of checking out their gear sets in detail, asking what weapon they have is a short cut to getting an idea of how well they're geared. Doesn't mean it works 100%.

[FrankReynolds]

What content gives you the impression that mythics are needed for anything? It's the nature of the player base, not the content. Or did you think VW required RMEs? Delve requires RMEs? Skirmish requires RMEs?

AT certain times, having those weapons increased your chance of success by a great deal. You'll notice that no one really shouts for them now because they no longer make a significant impact when compared to what average joe's are sporting. Now people just ask if you have a 119 weapon. Simply being the right level is good enough.

Normal BCs require RMEs? All listed are things I've seen people shout for hours at times, looking for x job with mythic, for no real good reason at all.

There's always that one idiot who demands the best. There's a guy on my server who shouts all day for relic rangers for AA normal fights. He shouts for a looooong time because no one wants to party with a guy who shouts for stupid crap like that.

A year ago, every shout was like that. All of them. Why? Because a guy with a delve weapon would blow a guy with ah gear out of the friggin water and people were pushing against time limits. Now, a delve weapon isn't far ahead of a JSE weapon. Close enough that player error is a much larger factor in winning. So now you only see stupid people demanding them. The guy who won't take anything less than an RME nowadays is usually exactly the guy you don't want to go with anyways.

It's as Afania said, when someone makes a pug, they go for the top end. What he didn't go into detail about and where most pugs go wrong is they demand the top end. That doesn't mean the content needs it, that's just the player base's mentality of "go with the highest chance to succeed." And as he said, when pugging, outside of checking out their gear sets in detail, asking what weapon they have is a short cut to getting an idea of how well they're geared. Doesn't mean it works 100%.

I would beg to differ. People don't look for the best chance to succeed. They look for the most reasonable chance to succeed. If the odds are incredibly high that you can't beat something without a certain job / item then you will demand that. JSE sams and monks can beat most stuff now with a fairly high success rate. That used to be a huge gamble so no one did it. Now I see it all the time. If it's more effort to find a RME guy than it is to just do the content without, people will go without. That is what happens more often than not now with a few exceptions.

There's always gonna be that one shell or individual who refuses to let people who haven't built all the weapons leech off their clearly superior skills...

[Afania]

AT certain times, having those weapons increased your chance of success by a great deal. You'll notice that no one really shouts for them now because they no longer make a significant impact when compared to what average joe's are sporting. Now people just ask if you have a 119 weapon. Simply being the right level is good enough.

This isn't true at all, OAT GS was powerful enough to beat all the content pre-SoA, so does TP bonus GKT. And yet it was still RME only.

No one really /shout for RME now because RE is already dead. Tsuru > relic and empy, and 90% of players own Tsuru. If you /shout mythic only you won't get anyone for a good while so you may as well don't /shout for them.

Also my point wasn't what is /shout for, but whether none mythic owners can compete with mythic owner when one spot open if both send /tell together.

If I /shout "Koga only" for event, it won't worth the effort now because it's going to take longer, only minority of the playerbase owns koga.

If 80% of the player owns koga, every /shout I do I can get 4 koga tell but only 1 tsuru /tell, then the tsuru SAM would be in a inferior position when trying to get that spot.

Your argument about "it takes longer to /shout for a Mythic" would no longer be valid if 80% of player owns koga and you get 10 Koga /tell in 10 sec every shout.

I could reverse that and say that your imaginary friend who is gonna quit if the most tedious quest line in the game is made slightly less tedious is really not gonna quit. It's not hard content. It's not even all that interesting at this point. It just takes a looooong time. If just doing something that takes a long time is what you want, then do it twice. I don't think anyone has them all yet. Go be that guy.

FYI I do have friends who quit after mythic done, and whether mythic is hard/tedious or not is irrelevant in this discussion. Most ppl tend to use "Mythic isn't hard, just tedious" as an argument to support easier mythic requirement, but that does not have any logic to back it up. By logic if Mythic is bad because it's long and tedious, the solution is to make it equally long but more fun to build, instead of shorten the process.

Just because you enjoy collecting weapons, doesn't mean there's a need to turn every weapon in this game into delve weapons.

Not everyone in this game has the same opinion as you about the weapons, nor have the same taste. There are players like instant gratification weapons like delve weapons, there are players like to build semi time consuming weapons like relic, there are players like to build very time consuming weapons like mythic/ergon, there are players like to build extremely time consuming weapons like afterglow.

The point is to have options to satisfy every type of player.

If you like instant gratification, go collect delve weapons. Since there's already an option for instant gratification fans, there's no need to turn EVERY weapon bar afterglow into instant gratification weapons.

Your argument about "If you like mythic building just build 2" isn't legit. If owning multiple weapons is what I want, I can just get delve weapons or relics. I have multiple none RME 119 weapons already, I don't need anymore weapons that I can finish in a short time.

Further more, each job can only use 1 mythic, your argument about "just go build 2" won't work anyways. If you want to use that as an argument, at least ask SE to release new line of legendary for every job.

You can't tell ppl just "go get afterglow if you want to spend time" either, since afterglow isn't the same tier of time investment as mythic. It costs at least 7+ times more than RME, and there needs to be a middle ground for ppl that wants to spend time, but not THAT much time.