"THe Development Team Does Not Currently Have Plans Too..."

[Balloon]

Don't you think that's a slightly exaggerated claim, Karbuncle, people aren't asking for Dual Wield VII and Beserk II, or no blood pact timers. Despite the specificity in some of those posts they can distilled down to "these jobs are underutilized and need changing in some way."

The real problem I have with the posts isn't just that they're saying there's no plans, but they're incredibly dismissive. They give no outline as to why they have no plans. When they do, it's often confusing or patently false. For example.

"We have no intention of modifying automaton defense because they have already high defense compared to other pets. (False, Crabs have higher Defense than Valoredge and Wyverns have a base higher defense than all of the other frames). And you can buff their defense further with Protect and Shell (Incorrect, they cannot cast on themselves, nor can they be cast upon.)"

This kind of response makes me question the team they have got to communicate our feedback to the dev team. How often are they misrepresenting our arguments to the dev team due to lack of understanding. It also makes me question, if those responses have been given by the dev team, their level of understanding about the game.

With this style of response, there's probably some element of 'lost in translation.' It's probably not the community teams fault if they get 1-2 sentence responses, and going back and asking for clarification can be tiresome when they need to be translated back and fourth.

The second kind of response they give is too vague.

"We have no plans to do this, because that" or "The dev team say it's as fast as it can possibly be"

These kind of responses tend to just confuse the community, and in cases like this there needs to be a little more transparency into the deeper thoughts about why what is said would happen. One good example of this is by the Localization leader, who has in the past given some insight into how the translation process works, and in one example gave us a reason as to why the equipment description box was expanded upon. That level of transparency is refreshing.

The third kind of response is the most irksome, "We have no plans to do this at the minute." Which really brings into question whether they were even brought up. There is no reason or rationale being mentioned.


These forums, I feel, are necessary. Feedback needs to be given. Square enix are not infallible, and it's questionable whether or not the developers actually play the game in any real capacity. The feedback from these forums often relays information to them about how the game is being played, and many people on here have got a fairly good understanding of how things mechanically work.

Not all feedback is equal, but not all feedback should be treated equally either. Having a community team that play the game would be helpful, because they could then be able to distinguish which posts are terrible and which are accurate. It's really disappointing to see the newest community rep last played at 75.

[Afania]

Don't you think that's a slightly exaggerated claim, Karbuncle, people aren't asking for Dual Wield VII and Beserk II, or no blood pact timers. Despite the specificity in some of those posts they can distilled down to "these jobs are underutilized and need changing in some way."

The real problem I have with the posts isn't that they're saying there's no plans, but they're incredibly dismissive.

Do you really think dev needs to tell the community why they aren't doing double ichor/nyzul token campaign?

If I ask the dev to hand me 20 mythics for free and dev say no, do you expect a proper reason behind it?

[Balloon]

Do you really think dev needs to tell the community why they aren't doing double ichor/nyzul token campaign?

If I ask the dev to hand me 20 mythics for free and dev say no, do you expect a proper reason behind it?

Not all feedback is equal, but not all feedback should be treated equally either. Having a community team that play the game would be helpful, because they could then be able to distinguish which posts are terrible and which are accurate. It's really disappointing to see the newest community rep last played at 75.

Not all feedback is equal, and I'd be really annoyed if they responded to any of those example posts you listed.

I'm not advocating a response for everything, but more informed feedback on the ones they do decide to respond to would be nice.

Asking for a buff for certain underutilized jobs is not the same as personally asking for 20 mythics. Even asking for double Ichor campaigns is not the same as asking for 20 mythics. I agree that that request wasn't exactly reasonable. Posting to say they have no plans to do that though? Those posts are pointless on their part; people asked because there's no plans. No response means no plans to do anything. Their responses are just getting comical, because a good deal of them are just pointless reminders that they 'have no plans.'

[Afania]

Not all feedback is equal, but I'd be really annoyed if they responded to any of those example posts you listed.

I'm not advocating a response for everything, but more informed feedback on the ones they do decide to respond to would be nice.

Asking for a buff for certain underutilized jobs is not the same as personally asking for 20 mythics. Even asking for double Ichor campaigns is not the same as asking for 20 mythics. I agree that that request wasn't exactly reasonable. Posting to say they have no plans to do that though? Those posts are pointless on their part; people asked because there's no plans. No response means no plans to do anything. Their responses are just getting comical, because a good deal of them are just pointless reminders that they aren't doing something.

Asking for double ichor is equal to "Please help me finish Mythic faster". How is it not equal to asking for 20 mythics? It doesn't help making the game better, it only gives certain player(minority, mind you) instant gratification. IMO it doesn't require a reason to deny the request, nor even a proper reply.

Asking for a buff for certain jobs is better request than "please help me finish mythic faster", but half of the ideas on the forum are either bad(like asking every DD job do equal dmg) or won't solve the issue completely(like asking BST PUP to be 10% behind SAM, you know ppl still gonna invite SAM like that right?).

Further more, I know that dev have been busy trying to adjust the job balance for months, most of the jobs, like GEO COR BLU all got a pretty good buff for past 3 months. Dev also replied about WAR DRG buff or something. IMO it's too impatient to expect a reply NOW when they may need time to finalize a proper solution that's better than making every jobs equal dmg.

Atm this game is running out of content, I'd rather see the dev create content faster for everyone than fulfilling Mythic builder's instant gratification. I don't understand why ppl are pissed for dev not giving a legit reason for "please help me build mythic faster" request.

[Balloon]

Asking for double ichor is equal to "Please help me finish Mythic faster". How is it not equal to asking for 20 mythics? It doesn't help making the game better, it only gives certain player(minority, mind you) instant gratification. IMO it doesn't require a reason to deny the request, nor even a proper reply.

Asking for a buff for certain jobs is better request than "please help me finish mythic faster", but half of the ideas on the forum are either bad(like asking every DD job do equal dmg) or won't solve the issue completely(like asking BST PUP to be 10% behind SAM, you know ppl still gonna invite SAM like that right?).

Further more, I know that dev have been busy trying to adjust the job balance for months, most of the jobs, like GEO COR BLU all got a pretty good buff for past 3 months. Dev also replied about WAR DRG buff or something. IMO it's too impatient to expect a reply NOW when they may need time to finalize a proper solution that's better than making every jobs equal dmg.

Atm this game is running out of content, I'd rather see the dev create content faster for everyone than fulfilling Mythic builder's instant gratification.

I already said it was a bad idea Afania, so I don't know why you're pushing that point. My point was that if they're saying there's no plans why even bother posting it? We know there's no plans. It just makes people angry at their non-response. If they were to post "We have no plans because we feel the difficulty in obtaining these mythics is balanced correctly, and to double the ichor would imbalance the difficulty of obtaining one. People are free to disagree with that, but then at least we have more of an idea about why.
It's not the same as asking for 20 mythics. It's a strawman. Easing requirements and asking to straight up get given something are different. I agree with your overall point, it's a bad idea. There's no need to exaggerate the argument to argue that though.

I'm not getting into the same argument we have had for 19 pages on another thread. You already know the reason I want PUP and BST to be buffed to be better is so I can setup parties with me on those jobs. I've outlined it 20 times. It's not the discussion we're having.
My point is if they were to say "There's no plans to buff X job at the moment" I'd want a little more of an explanation as to why they think it's in a good spot and don't need one. I also applaud their ability to buff certain jobs, the BLU buff was described by the community quite a few times, and a less cynical version of myself would like to think the devs paid attention to that feedback and implemented something similar.

I also agree that if they don't have concrete plans they shouldn't post anything. Them saying we have no plans to do something sounds like a pretty concrete no.

These forums were created to give feedback, and I think people are just expressing how all their feedback isn't being taken seriously. Some don't deserve to be taken seriously, but some do.
Treating us like we're idiots by not indulging their rationale behind their decisions isn't helping. It makes it sound like there wasn't a single bit of consideration put into something.

Edit: altered the wording, grammar, clarified some points.

[Karbuncle]

Don't you think that's a slightly exaggerated claim, Karbuncle, people aren't asking for Dual Wield VII and Beserk II, or no blood pact timers. Despite the specificity in some of those posts they can distilled down to "these jobs are underutilized and need changing in some way."

For every reasonable request, there will be more than a handful of unreasonable ones, by one person or anothers standard. Do you want to be the man whos hired to sift through the oceans of "baaawwwwwww my job sucks" to find the few suggestions that aren't over the top or "give my job more damages"?

right now, the FFXI official forums aren't super bad, but just... just dig around, you'll find some of the request I've spoken of. They only ceased a small bit lately because of all the "No plans" and essentially over time people stopped trying. if suddenly SE were to start making plans based off our feedback, do you honestly believe there wouldn't be a flood of stupid request coming in daily?

Yes, Not all feedback is the same, I thought I adequately described that... but I know that some suggestions here are good, others not so good... I was trying to express "who is the judge of what is good and reasonable and whats not?" You would think us or the devs right? well some of "us" might think Dual Wield IV/V to BST would be "Reasonable" since they're "DD", where as some of us would think "You're crazy, not its not". Theres 20+ Pages of argument over which DD jobs need more buffs.

Reason and logic might be a companion of yours, but if you looked around, you would see its not a friend of everyone, and if SE opened the floodgates, the stupidity of suggestions would rise, and no one wants to be the guy who has to sift through the unreasonable to find the reasonable. Put it another way, they suddenly say "Yeah, Pets can now be effected by party buffs!" its yay, they listened, how awesome right? Now everyone and their mom comes out the woodworks saying "Pet jobs got buffs! Why isn't RDM getting Breakga VI?" (Hint: Yes I'm exaggerating only because my mind isn't warped enough to imagine the stupidity that will come from this)... and when SE has to go "Sorry thats crazy we have no plans for that"... what then? The good of them listening to the pet job buffs is drowned in an ocean of idiot requests being denied and people go back to "SE never listens".

So i must reiterate for emphasis.

I don't want to sound like im justifying all this, but I at least understand it.

They should listen to some of these, most of us agree on that, But i have been witness to the ocean of bawww that can come from the slightest sign of listening (Hint: Changing Bully, readjusting BLU merit categories), and go to those threads, those responses, and I guarantee you within a few posts will be someone saying "Hey, you changed that, thanks! maybe you can go change this now *shameless link to thread*" or "Oh, so you guys changed that but not this?".

You know its true. I know SE has given us things in the past that has at least been partially influenced by our feedback, and they will continue to in the future... its just their good deeds are, as proof here, lost in an ocean of nos.

I hope SE does start listening and taking in feedback instead of insisting they know how to do everything by themselves... I really do.

[Balloon]

Long post.

Nah, I know there'd be crazy, there often is - I did read your post, and sorry for the knee jerk reaction. Hell, I think the initial tone of that "NERF SAM!" thread was already erring on the side of crazy.

As I put in the last couple of posts I put, I don't think all feedback deserves responses, but when they do respond they should be giving us more information. I'd reiterate that having a more informed Community Team would be a great boon for these forums, because having a 75 BLU who played.. what.. over 4 years ago isn't helpful (release of 75->80). They can't distinguish the crazy from the rational. For instance, I think if you were to send that 21+ page thread to the dev team I'd hope they'd not send any of the specifics, and instead send "these jobs are underutilized and need changing in some way. Some people think they need damage buffs, others think that content should be released that prioritizes those classes. Other people in the thread feel that SAM is a little overpowered." and not "Afania said this, Balloon said that."

[Karbuncle]

Nah, I know there'd be crazy, there often is - I did read your post, and sorry for the knee jerk reaction. Hell, I think the initial tone of that "NERF SAM!" thread was already erring on the side of crazy.

As I put in the last couple of posts I put, I don't think all feedback deserves responses, but when they do respond they should be giving us more information. I'd reiterate that having a more informed Community Team would be a great boon for these forums, because having a 75 BLU who played.. what.. over 4 years ago isn't helpful (release of 75->80). They can't distinguish the crazy from the rational. For instance, I think if you were to send that 21+ page thread to the dev team I'd hope they'd not send any of the specifics, and instead send "these jobs are underutilized and need changing in some way. Some people think they need damage buffs, others think that content should be released that prioritizes those classes. Other people in the thread feel that SAM is a little overpowered." and not "Afania said this, Balloon said that."

I'm hoping the dev team is at least aware there are a handful of jobs right now that are next to useless, and some that are pretty blatantly useless in endgame.

[Balloon]

I'm hoping the dev team is at least aware there are a handful of jobs right now that are next to useless, and some that are pretty blatantly useless in endgame.

They've mentioned a few in the past in what was a promising little teaser. Summoner getting some new BPs, PUP BST DRG getting some pet buffs and Warrior getting something unique.

Their updates as of late have mostly been HUGE buffs to things, GEO for instance saw a phenomenal increase.. I don't know how the BLU changes affected the meta, but they were at least on point. The weaponskill updates were potent, even if they changed very little about what we use. So there's some hope those updates will be good.

I just want responses likethis (ffxiv) and this(localization) to be more frequent. I actually hang around Localization a lot now. Unelonborro is fantastic.

[Camiie]

I'm hoping the dev team is at least aware there are a handful of jobs right now that are next to useless, and some that are pretty blatantly useless in endgame.

I don't think they can truly understand it unless they play the game at max level on a live server with the community at large. It's one thing to hear about it from a bunch of strangers on a forum or a few underlings in the company who likely feel they need to whitewash the truth to keep their jobs. It's another thing entirely to experience it yourself, and that experience is what they lack. If they had to suffer it themselves they'd be far more inclined to fix it.