"THe Development Team Does Not Currently Have Plans Too..."

[Olor]

Hmm. Sorry if those goes a little off topic, but... could someone ELI5 what's wrong with pet and magic jobs to me? They seem like they would be pretty versatile and reasonably capable of clearing endgame content...

Is it just that people min/max and saving that extra minute on a fight means jobs that are slightly less efficient don't get invited, or is it some deeper flaw with the mechanics of those jobs?

Well... there is min maxing, and there is terrible balance. A pet job like PUP or BST is likely to put out, at best 50-65 per cent of the output of a SAM - without any real added benefit. SMN also does terrible damage but at least they can buff the party.

BLMs have been screwed by the fact that they have to manage MP ***AND*** their damage output is much lower overall than melee damage dealers... so a similar problem. It wasn't so bad but then SE came in and buffed TP gain AND buffed Weaponskills - leaving magic damage in the dust. Frankly the devs do that too often... bring in updates that buff some jobs (almost always jobs that need no buffs) and then leave everything else unusable.

Those changes also made gap between pet users and regular melee jobs even bigger.

Honestly if the difference between the best jobs and the rest was like 10 or even 15 per cent people would be annoyed but it wouldn't just be plain stupid to bring those jobs. As it is now, these jobs are just so bad you're holding back your group significantly when you go to events on them. So it goes much further than min-maxing if that makes sense.

[Ris]

Thanks for the explanation. Usually I don't really support DPS job homogenization like WoW and ARR did because, well, it makes them much less interesting... but while I can see a 10% or so DPS difference thanks to utility and buffs and stuff like that.... melee doing 200% of the damage of magic and pet classes does seem a little bit out there...

[Olor]

Thanks for the explanation. Usually I don't really support DPS job homogenization like WoW and ARR did because, well, it makes them much less interesting... but while I can see a 10% or so DPS difference thanks to utility and buffs and stuff like that.... melee doing 200% of the damage of magic and pet classes does seem a little bit out there...

I also don't want jobs homogenized - it is one of the reasons I don't like FFXIV.

That said, the gap is currently totally unreasonable - especially given the, at best, mediocre utility of these jobs. At least on my BLU I can buff myself, smack stuff with my swords, buff and heal others etc. On BST... well I can hit stuff with my axe and watch my pet whiff...

[Xerius]

Well... there is min maxing, and there is terrible balance. A pet job like PUP or BST is likely to put out, at best 50-65 per cent of the output of a SAM - without any real added benefit. SMN also does terrible damage but at least they can buff the party.

BLMs have been screwed by the fact that they have to manage MP ***AND*** their damage output is much lower overall than melee damage dealers... so a similar problem. It wasn't so bad but then SE came in and buffed TP gain AND buffed Weaponskills - leaving magic damage in the dust. Frankly the devs do that too often... bring in updates that buff some jobs (almost always jobs that need no buffs) and then leave everything else unusable.

Those changes also made gap between pet users and regular melee jobs even bigger.

Honestly if the difference between the best jobs and the rest was like 10 or even 15 per cent people would be annoyed but it wouldn't just be plain stupid to bring those jobs. As it is now, these jobs are just so bad you're holding back your group significantly when you go to events on them. So it goes much further than min-maxing if that makes sense.

Not even just that. Mages also have an extremely hard time managing their enmity which is pathetic when you compare how much damage a BLM will do compared to a RNG which is virtually hateless and to make it even more lolsy our best DD spell is stuck on a 10 minute timer.

DRG has struggled as a melee job for years because if they ask for a damage upgrade their told they have wyverns that help balance damage (which it doesn't) and if they ask for pet buffs they're told that the dev team is afraid they'll become too powerful (which they won't).

BST has never been able to get into parties no matter what they've done with the job. SMN while they have their buffs, things like Avatar's Favor's 'charge time' make it nigh impossible to actually reach your full potential. RDM still hasn't really found a niche except within RNG parties.

If you're a BLU you're certainly not setting magic spells unless it's for a JA and no one knows whether GEO is supposed to deal damage, debuff or support.

Sorry if that was a little ranty, talking about this stuff always gets me heated.

[Malithar]

and no one knows whether GEO is supposed to deal damage, debuff or support.

All of the above, and then some. A well played Geo is top tier now, easily.

[Ris]

Not even just that. Mages also have an extremely hard time managing their enmity which is pathetic when you compare how much damage a BLM will do compared to a RNG which is virtually hateless and to make it even more lolsy our best DD spell is stuck on a 10 minute timer.

DRG has struggled as a melee job for years because if they ask for a damage upgrade their told they have wyverns that help balance damage (which it doesn't) and if they ask for pet buffs they're told that the dev team is afraid they'll become too powerful (which they won't).

BST has never been able to get into parties no matter what they've done with the job. SMN while they have their buffs, things like Avatar's Favor's 'charge time' make it nigh impossible to actually reach your full potential. RDM still hasn't really found a niche except within RNG parties.

If you're a BLU you're certainly not setting magic spells unless it's for a JA and no one knows whether GEO is supposed to deal damage, debuff or support.

Sorry if that was a little ranty, talking about this stuff always gets me heated.

The only one I can kind of see being OK like that is BST, since that was always meant to be a soloist job in a party based game. Buuut.. even in the early 2000s, I think I remember SE using the "we're afraid X will become too powerful" excuse. Sounds like they would be better off making something a little too powerful and then scaling back a bit than leaving things like this, though....

I did see DRG got some buffs recently. Did that help them at all or is it still loldrg?

[Xerius]

The only one I can kind of see being OK like that is BST, since that was always meant to be a soloist job in a party based game. Buuut.. even in the early 2000s, I think I remember SE using the "we're afraid X will become too powerful" excuse. Sounds like they would be better off making something a little too powerful and then scaling back a bit than leaving things like this, though....

I did see DRG got some buffs recently. Did that help them at all or is it still loldrg?

It only helped with Wyvern survivability a little bit which really wasn't an issue in the first place. :/