Please nerf monk and samurai so other DDs can play

[Afania]

Because that's a whole heap of nonsense, the game has never really been like that at all. What did BST solo other than 1-75 and a few, select nms? The game has always been tiered like that, and all I want is for some of those tier lists to be changed. I don't actually think THF should surpass sam, but it's not even close, and the benefits of th don't fix that. Jobs should be closer to each other, not equal.

Jobs should be able to participate in all content, and it should be effective. It's not effective to do a Marjami run without a group of rangers, what I want it a situation where, because you've shouted for an hour already, someone goes "Well we might as well shout for x" not "Oh we might as well stop shouting."

Using the 75 model now is so baffling to me, it's not the same game, and some of the jobs should be reflected to change that. Because it's a waste of dev time to create solo content that won't give good rewards.

All I can say is I don't agree with you, but it seems that I have a very different POV toward FFXI. I don't view FFXI as a "raid based MMO" that the entire game is designed and balanced based on endgame raid and the sole purpose of playing the game is to do raid and get gear. ARR was like that and I hated it. I view it more like a virtual world where ppl just live in the game, and raid/endgame being one of many things you do in game. IMO, solo dyna, salvage, solo PW for gil, do AA BC is also part of the game and this game isn't delve only.

There are plenty of solo content that give good rewards. You build R/M/E with dyna/salvage, you can solo PW and sell scoria for gil, not every job can do that. Those are all part of the game IMO. This game shouldn't be 6 man content only.

In ARR, they removed elemental dmg resistance so every DD has equal performance in instance content. If you want that kind of game may as well play ARR. But FFXI is never a game like that, it's designed in a way that some job has better performance in certain situation and you NEED to job change if you're in different situation. If you can't find a situation that your job can shine, you should ask the dev to create the situation that your job shines, instead of asking the dev to change the job so they're all the same.

[Balloon]

I just don't agree that we should be excluded from newer, more relevant content.

I can solo Salv well on pup, but I can also do it in a 117 mnk. I can solo dynamis on pup but I'd do it on thf. I can solo some skirmish but everyone has trusts now. I'm pretty sure I just can't solo PW.

Being slightly better at content that anyone can do is not justification for being excluded in most other, newer, more relevant content that gives better rewards.

I'm not saying that any of these jobs should be functionally better than a SAM, but I mean.. it should be a lot closer. And I actually do just agree that RNG enmity needs a nerf, or more accurately, the enmity system needs a rework so that tanking isn't only viable with RNGs.

We've seen a shift towards this already, BLU got a pretty nice buff that actually identifies one of the main problems with the job. I hope to see this addressed for other jobs in the future.

I don't play dancer, but it's not hard to see that it can't perform it's main task anymore, so a shift towards more DD play wouldn't be broken (In a landscape where whm realistically never falls below 800mp.) I play puppetmaster, and it's so damn depressing actually trying to DO stuff with it, even if my automaton performed above 5% of the parties dps, it wouldn't live long enough to do anything.

Yes, it can do other things, and while I personally disagree with the conclusion that this should make them weaker I do believe that the fact it performs not even half as good as a SAM is indicative of a need for a buff.

Closer, not equal, moving towards something more balanced like they're trying to do with buff jobs.

[Afania]

I just don't agree that we should be excluded from newer, more relevant content.

I can solo Salv well on pup, but I can also do it in a 117 mnk. I can solo dynamis on pup but I'd do it on thf. I can solo some skirmish but everyone has trusts now. I'm pretty sure I just can't solo PW.

Being slightly better at content that anyone can do is not justification for being excluded in most other, newer, more relevant content that gives better rewards.

I wouldn't say salv is a good example cuz TH doesn't really shine there. But it does make a difference in dyna.

THF being "slightly better" in dyna is the same as MNK being "slightly" better in delve. The only job that's WAY better is SAM. THF's output really isn't bad in delve1, especially ceizak. My friend's THF has no issue outparsing most MNK in morimar, let alone ceizak. THF isn't excluded from newer BC as well, honestly PUP and BST is in worse position than THF atm.

IMO, the right way to solve the issue is to create more content for pet jobs to shine, instead of fixing pet jobs and make them exactly the same as SAM.

[Afania]

I just don't agree that we should be excluded from newer, more relevant content.

I can solo Salv well on pup, but I can also do it in a 117 mnk. I can solo dynamis on pup but I'd do it on thf. I can solo some skirmish but everyone has trusts now. I'm pretty sure I just can't solo PW.

Being slightly better at content that anyone can do is not justification for being excluded in most other, newer, more relevant content that gives better rewards.

I'm not saying that any of these jobs should be functionally better than a SAM, but I mean.. it should be a lot closer. And I actually do just agree that RNG enmity needs a nerf, or more accurately, the enmity system needs a rework so that tanking isn't only viable with RNGs.

We've seen a shift towards this already, BLU got a pretty nice buff that actually identifies one of the main problems with the job. I hope to see this addressed for other jobs in the future.

I don't play dancer, but it's not hard to see that it can't perform it's main task anymore, so a shift towards more DD play wouldn't be broken (In a landscape where whm realistically never falls below 800mp.) I play puppetmaster, and it's so damn depressing actually trying to DO stuff with it, even if my automaton performed above 5% of the parties dps, it wouldn't live long enough to do anything.

Yes, it can do other things, and while I personally disagree with the conclusion that this should make them weaker I do believe that the fact it performs not even half as good as a SAM is indicative of a need for a buff.

Closer, not equal, moving towards something more balanced like they're trying to do with buff jobs.

What's the point to make it "closer" anyways. Ppl still gonna shoot for the most efficient(DD that parse top) setup no matter what. IMO it's not a good way to balance job at all.

I think pet jobs need a fix, but making them the same as SAM isn't right direction to fix it. IMO DD jobs that's in the same class as SAM, like WAR DRG DRK needs a dmg boost, while pet jobs needs another advantage DD job does not have.

[Balloon]

I wouldn't say salv is a good example cuz TH doesn't really shine there. But it does make a difference in dyna.

THF being "slightly better" in dyna is the same as MNK being "slightly" better in delve. The only job that's WAY better is SAM. THF's output really isn't bad in delve1, especially ceizak. My friend's THF has no issue outparsing most MNK in morimar, let alone ceizak. THF isn't excluded from newer BC as well, honestly PUP and BST is in worse position than THF atm.

IMO, the right way to solve the issue is to create more content for pet jobs to shine, instead of fixing pet jobs and make them exactly the same as SAM.

Because I can't say to my friends let me go pup/bst/whatever to AA Difficult because even they don't think it's a good idea. If I shouted and went pup, people would leave. Having them closer allows me to set stuff up, even if it wouldn't change shouts.

People seem to think MNK is more damaging than it is, that was never the reason it was taken. I don't even see mnk go to most stuff now..

Again, who wants them to be the same as SAM? Not I. I want the idea of taking a pup over a sam when there's no sams available to be something that isn't hilarious. It doesn't even perform at 50% of SAMs output. I both agree and disagree with the idea of creating content where one job is clearly better, agree because sure, it makes sense. Disagree because it does nothing to solve the wider problem of inequity between jobs. If all jobs were at a baseline, and then shone brighter in one or two pieces of content, great, but having 1 BC where you need a PUP or BST? That still has other jobs performing much better in 90% of the other content.

Salvage and Dynamis isn't relevant content, it's content aimed at pre-ilvl. It'd take maybe 10-15more minutes for me to do Salvage on an ilvl dd/dnc over these 'solo jobs' - It's not the same. Hell, I go to Dynamis on a thf I built from gear for MNK/COR, with Daggers I got for COR (and delve lucky drop.)

[Balloon]

And I want to make it clear again, I heavily disagree with the notion of nerfing jobs. I think OP is being incredibly overzealous with that.
Fixes, not nerf. I don't even want the priority to be placed on pet jobs, I'd rather see a overhaul of the enmity system and removal of JA delay. That actually is an indirect buff for DNC, PUP and perhaps RUN.

[Rubicant82]

.-.
do I see a lot a mud slinging and I can't catch it all but here is the haps chaps:

NERF is not the answer - As mentioned PEOPLE (Both players & Devs) are allergic to change.
Sure you can level jobs (I have 6 now I rotate through just so I can do end game) but that shouldn't HAVE to be the case. The DDs should not be different from one another by the end of the battle, accept for the difference given to them by gear etc. I.E all things equal DD = DD = DD = DD, that is balance, right now that is not the case.
The idea to a lot of people that they are not able to play their favorite job is a "put off" and they are likely to stop playing. Now that may not seem like that big of a deal but most people have at least 1 mule so there goes $17 out the window. Now multiply that by 100 or even 500 over course of time and you are looking at substantial lose in revenue for the company each month. It would be in the best interests of the GAME and the profit for SE to make it so that all 22 jobs can be relevant in all content. Enabling players to come up with even more divers strategies. The thought that every season has a bandwagon job to promote longevity is a laugh, you lose players by making what they WANT to do useless or shunned. I've seen the bandwagons come and go sense NA release, I'm sure the cycle will continue as apparently SE has not learned proper business strategies yet. We are but a few voices of thousands, and something I have learned over the years with dealing with big corporations, the squeaky wheel sadly does get the grease.

[Balloon]

I don't think it's mud slinging. Me and Afania have a difference of opinion, but I certainly see her point, we just have different ways of viewing how the game should be played.

[Sasaraixx]

Seriously though, BLM isn't THAT bad after last skillchain dmg boost update, since BLM's output doesn't interrupt skill chains. It's also often used by JP in skirmish 3. Ppl doesn't /shout for BLM, because it's hard to find one to perform properly to be useful to begin with.

I can't tell if you are being serious or are trolling.

The only reason BLM is shouted for in skirmish is to ga/ja fodder mobs.

And if your reason for not wanting to bring another SAM to delve is because they can't wait 1 second to weapon skill, then there are bigger issues with that group.

The dev team has basically acknowledged that elemental magic is lacking after the weapon skill update. That is why they are going to adjust tier V nukes. You can't seriously tell me that BLM isn't among the dd jobs that need a boost. Even in delves like kahmir that require magic damage , you're probably better of using an elemental weapon skill.

People don't shout for BLM because there is usually a better alternative out there, not because you can't find a properly geared one.

I don't think they should nerf SAM or MNK, but they need to look at the other jobs. I agree that we can't expect every job to be useful for every event, but there are a handful of jobs that are absolutely the best choices for most content and a few that are never sought after. That is not balanced.

And I'm sorry but farming currency in dynamis does NOT count.

[Olor]

And I want to make it clear again, I heavily disagree with the notion of nerfing jobs. I think OP is being incredibly overzealous with that.
Fixes, not nerf. I don't even want the priority to be placed on pet jobs, I'd rather see a overhaul of the enmity system and removal of JA delay. That actually is an indirect buff for DNC, PUP and perhaps RUN.

I want to make it clear, what I really want is for jobs like BST, THF, DRG, BLM, PUP etc to be buffed. Unfortunately, the developers are NOT WILLING to buff these jobs properly. I mean, us BSTs have asked repeatedly - please give us stronger pets (answer "those pets are too scary) - to uncap all our jugs (answer: sorry no, you need to wait after every update for months to even keep up to the crappy performance you used to have), to make BST affinity add levels OVER our weapon ilevel (silence)

I mean their only "solutions" so far is to give us some incredibly difficult to craft HQ jugs (which are not at all stronger, just have a bit more HP and cost a fortune) and some pet food that still leaves our pets whiffing on all the things. They promised to stop taking away stats from the master on gear to give them to pets (making us choose between which part of the team is gimped) - and immediately broke that promise by bringing in a new skirmish axe that has NO pet stats on it - meaning we have to choose - buff our selves or our pets. No good pet gear has been added. PUP and BST did not get HP boost trait. BST is still a 1-handed DD with zero offensive JAs.

I'm sorry but if the devs are not willing to buff these jobs the only answer is to nerf other jobs. It's simply unbelievable that a couple DDs are given superpowers and other DDs are told to go pound sand.

As for the "level another job" crowd - I go to all events on BRD. ALL. I never get to play my other jobs in groups because they are useless in current content. That's stupid. Every job needs to have a place in at least 50% of endgame. It's ok for a couple of events to favour one job or another - but it's just not reasonable if most jobs can't participate in most content.

I mean, people say "THF has TH" but almost no events NEED treasure hunter anymore. Delve? Lots of drops without TH thanks. Skirmish? Doesn't increase the number of drops one bit. Sorry what current content favours TH?