Please nerf monk and samurai so other DDs can play

[Balloon]

Lol most broken lmao..
RDM as a starter job was your PLD now its less than any job in the game how bout unnerphing RDM to be as it was in 2003

I wasn't saying it was underwhelming or bad. I meant the enmity generation of ranger is insanely low. It was a poor choice of words, and perhaps a bit hyperbolic.

[Camiie]

You are implicitly telling other players how to run their events. Go pound sand. If you want to bring your Beastmaster to something, run your own event. I have Monk and Samurai, but I usually don't use them unless I'm running the event. It's usually WHM or BRD or BLM.

Either level the desired job to get invites without dealing with the stresses of running events, or level the job you want and deal with the stress. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

If you want less stress then wouldn't you be better off if you could just take any DD, healer, support or tank and get the job done instead of having to worry about the right one being available?

Also you seem to be encouraging people to just level the flavor of the month. Is that really the game we want?

[Afania]

Also you seem to be encouraging people to just level the flavor of the month. Is that really the game we want?

What's wrong with that in a game with a job change system? The game's still perfectly beatable with none bandwagon jobs, but ppl just refuse to try.

[Camiie]

What's wrong with that in a game with a job change system? The game's still perfectly beatable with none bandwagon jobs, but ppl just refuse to try.

So the time, effort, and love (for lack of a better word) people put into a job shouldn't matter? Everything should be determined by what the current content favors? A job is just another piece of gear to be swapped in and out at the press of a button? As hardcore as you are about specialization this is the last stance I expected you to take.

[Karbuncle]

So the time, effort, and love (for lack of a better word) people put into a job shouldn't matter? Everything should be determined by what the current content favors? A job is just another piece of gear to be swapped in and out at the press of a button? As hardcore as you are about specialization this is the last stance I expected you to take.

Pretty much yah, This is an MMO, not a fairytalehappyendingRPg. Unless you just make every job undistinguishable from the other job by means of nerfing everything unique about them down to a code of basic damage (FFXIV), there's no way to perfectly balance 22 jobs, there just isn't, especially not in a way to make them all useful all the time for all events.

And its not entirely Squares fault here, a lot of these events can be done without bandwagon jobs, but the reality is people want efficiency, you may love playing DRg or BST or something, but other people love getting sh*t done and finishing quicker. I personally love THF, its my favorite RPG job in any game, and I rarely get to play it in XI, it doesn't make me love the job any less, I just do what I can on it (Solo old content like Salvage II or Dynamis). This game isn't about "I WANNA PLAY MY JOB! WAAAAH", frankly SE has come out and stated they have no intent to make content clearable by any and all job combinations, and thats the smartest thing they've done in my eyes. They know people will go for 1 or 2 strategies, throw RNGs at it or throw DD's at it.

There are some jobs I think need updating, but you're playing an MMO lady, your favorite job is not always going to be wanted in certain events, and sometimes very few at all, Especially in an MMO where all you need to do to switch jobs is walk into your mog house and cycle through a menu. I'm sorry if this is not what you people want to here, but this is what an MMO is, I for one will take having to play THF in mostly old content over having every job being a bland carbon copy of eachother with the only differences being the name of their abilities and the stat mod that goes into them.

Nerfing MNK or SAM won't help, the next bandwagon job will be found and if you're not that you're not playing, this is the fault of the community most of all, not the developers, we cannot deny SAM and MNK are powerful, but again, nerfing those don't mean you'll be desired on any job you wanna play, it just means the next bandwagon job will pop up, period. Its irrational and stupid to think otherwise.

Again, I'm sorry, this game has a job change system, if you feel you only want to level one job cause its your 'FAVVY', you have no one but yourself to blame when your job isn't wanted. I used to only have THF and SMN, now I have all jobs except RNG, GEO, and RUN... I don't enjoy BRD, but I enjoy doing events, so I find fun in it where I can, because I knew this coming into the game.

[Camiie]

Pretty much yah, This is an MMO, not a fairytalehappyendingRPg.

Yes it is an MMO. One important aspect of MMO development is maintaining class balance. FFXI has nothing of the sort.

Unless you just make every job undistinguishable from the other job by means of nerfing everything unique about them down to a code of basic damage (FFXIV), there's no way to perfectly balance 22 jobs, there just isn't, especially not in a way to make them all useful all the time for all events.

They don't have to be indistinguishable. They can be different from each other yet still be effective in their defined roles. To think otherwise is to lack imagination and ignore character archetypes that have existed since before the dawn of electronic gaming. The nimble rogue can make things just as dead as the hulking barbarian. He just does it in a different, but no less effective, way.

Perfect balance is impossible, I'll give you that, but they should at least strive for it rather than allowing the majority of jobs to languish in mediocrity or worse.

And its not entirely Squares fault here, a lot of these events can be done without bandwagon jobs, but the reality is people want efficiency, you may love playing DRg or BST or something, but other people love getting sh*t done and finishing quicker.

So the events can be done without bandwagon jobs, but the only way to "get shit done" is to use bandwagon jobs? I see...

I personally love THF, its my favorite RPG job in any game, and I rarely get to play it in XI, it doesn't make me love the job any less, I just do what I can on it (Solo old content like Salvage II or Dynamis).

So what's fine with you should be fine with everyone? I guess the person who wants to use his THF to stab the biggest baddest monsters in the game to death is wrong to want such things? I think he should be free to do so, while you seem to think he should be happy he's limited to years old content.

This game isn't about "I WANNA PLAY MY JOB! WAAAAH", frankly SE has come out and stated they have no intent to make content clearable by any and all job combinations, and thats the smartest thing they've done in my eyes.

So the smartest thing they've ever done is throw up their hands and admit their laziness and lack of creativity when it comes to battle content and job balance. Well I guess it is good to know one's limits.

There are some jobs I think need updating, but you're playing an MMO lady, your favorite job is not always going to be wanted in certain events, and sometimes very few at all, Especially in an MMO where all you need to do to switch jobs is walk into your mog house and cycle through a menu. I'm sorry if this is not what you people want to here, but this is what an MMO is, I for one will take having to play THF in mostly old content over having every job being a bland carbon copy of eachother with the only differences being the name of their abilities and the stat mod that goes into them.

No that's what FFXI is. Most MMOs aren't that way or at least not to that extreme. Sorry to break your illusion that the FFXI way is the common way.

Nerfing MNK or SAM won't help, the next bandwagon job will be found and if you're not that you're not playing, this is the fault of the community most of all, not the developers, we cannot deny SAM and MNK are powerful, but again, nerfing those don't mean you'll be desired on any job you wanna play, it just means the next bandwagon job will pop up, period. Its irrational and stupid to think otherwise.

Again, I'm sorry, this game has a job change system, if you feel you only want to level one job cause its your 'FAVVY', you have no one but yourself to blame when your job isn't wanted. I used to only have THF and SMN, now I have all jobs except RNG, GEO, and RUN... I don't enjoy BRD, but I enjoy doing events, so I find fun in it where I can, because I knew this coming into the game.

I don't agree with nerfing MNK or SAM either. I too have multiple jobs leveled, but I refuse to level a job I know I won't enjoy because that defeats the purpose of this being a game. I do accept the consequences of that and I'm not nearly as stupid as you want to make me out to be with your rather condescending response.

I just think it's utterly ridiculous that in a group based game so many jobs have nothing to offer a group no matter how much work is put into those jobs. Yet somehow I'm the unreasonable one for daring to think such a thing.

[Karbuncle]

Yes it is an MMO. One important aspect of MMO development is maintaining class balance. FFXI has nothing of the sort.

Most MMOs do this by blanding every class until they're distinguishable by nothing more than their clothing, yes almost all new age MMOs. This is the only way to easily "Balance" a large variety of classes. Most new MMOs also only really have to balance a handful of classes, not 22. Balancing 22 classes is not easy, and SE hasn't done a terrible job a it, Its just the community sniffs out the job that does 0.1% better overall and they use that and only that.

Perfect balance is impossible, I'll give you that, but they should at least strive for it rather than allowing the majority of jobs to languish in mediocrity or worse.

I wanna know which jobs you perceive to be in such a bad position right now if you don't mind me asking. No sarcasm here, I can think of maybe a few but I wanna know which ones you feel are in dire need of adjusting.

So the events can be done without bandwagon jobs, but the only way to "get shit done" is to use bandwagon jobs? I see...

In the players eyes? the communities eyes? yes.

So what's fine with you should be fine with everyone? I guess the person who wants to use his THF to stab the biggest baddest monsters in the game to death is wrong to want such things? I think he should be free to do so, while you seem to think he should be happy he's limited to years old content.

Nope, that part was to express how just because you or I want something, doesn't mean its the communities voice. Expressing that we are simply a small minority voicing our opinions here. That went over your head I guess.

So the smartest thing they've ever done is throw up their hands and admit their laziness and lack of creativity when it comes to battle content and job balance. Well I guess it is good to know one's limits.

You almost grasped the concept in your sarcastic second sentence there. They know their limits and they know the community, balancing all content around 22 jobs perfectly is stupid and impossible.

No that's what FFXI is. Most MMOs aren't that way or at least not to that extreme. Sorry to break your illusion that the FFXI way is the common way.

FFXI has always been different, its from an Era of time when MMOs were diverse, not WoW Clones, I personally chose to continue playing FFXI for this very reason. I like FFXI for what it is, yes it has flaws in class balancing but most jobs are balanced well, the only obtusely unbalanced one right now i think is SAM, which is leagues ahead of any other DD... and I think that could be adressed in some way.

I just think it's utterly ridiculous that in a group based game so many jobs have nothing to offer a group no matter how much work is put into those jobs. Yet somehow I'm the unreasonable one for daring to think such a thing.

I'm just saying these jobs DO offer something, its that the community has figured you DD job A offers 2% more than DD job B, so DD job B is "Useless". Its. the. Community.

Any event today can be beaten with DRG, PUP, BST, etc DD's, theres threads and forums of all pet jobs (BST, SMN, PUP) Beating Ark Angel Difficult fights... Its not impossible, the community just wants to take the "Good bandwagon" job and thats it. Plain and simple. Some jobs are lacking its true, but not enough to make them useless or unusable.

[Olor]

Balancing 22 classes is not easy, and SE hasn't done a terrible job a it, Its just the community sniffs out the job that does 0.1% better overall and they use that and only that.

Dude, if BST was 0.1% behind SAM, you'd get no arguments from me that things were close enough. Heck, like I've said over and over - if a fully buffed average BST could do 90% of the damage of a fully buffed average SAM in the same party - I'd be willing to call that close enough. That's a way bigger gap than what you're suggesting is the case here - come on, we all know that the gap is way higher - probably more like 70% at best for a fantastic BST versus an ok SAM.

Having certain jobs suck isn't variety, sorry, it just isn't. It just makes the game more samey. Never get to play on anything but the same handful of better jobs. The gaps are too big, and before you say "start your own parties" - no, just no, you look like a moron trying to start a party while playing a subpar job. You pretty much would have to have a mythic for people to even consider letting you play a job like BST in any kind of serious content. That's not variety - that's poor balancing and crummy game design.

I'm not asking for the game to be XIV. I like this game better, but I feel less and less compelled to log in when the only thing I ever get to do in groups is play bard (love bard but it's nice to switch it up). That I feel "lucky" that one of my jobs is even in demand at all when I have several, is problematic.

Increasing the strength of jobs that currently suck will just make non cookie cutter set ups more viable. I fail to see how that reduces variety.

[Vinedrai]

The main problem is, even if weaker DDs are pumped to close the gap, people would still bring what is found to be the most failproof. It won't magically turn your bst or pup or w/e into a globally acceptable DD.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that the gaps are too big and they should remedy that.

[Afania]

Yes it is an MMO. One important aspect of MMO development is maintaining class balance. FFXI has nothing of the sort.

Disagree, IMO one important aspect of MMO is creating a sense of community and virtual life. I can accept certain job being less bandwagon but shines in niche situation simply because that's how rl works as well.

If this is a 2014 MMO with a burden of 100M budget, maybe I'd agree with you. But for a 12 year old MMO FFXI should be what it used to be, which is to create classes that's very, very different from each other.

In order to do so, there's no way you can perfectly balance all 22 jobs in a 6 man raid. Further more, it pretty much just tell everyone "raid or gtfo in this game" but nothing else.

So the time, effort, and love (for lack of a better word) people put into a job shouldn't matter? Everything should be determined by what the current content favors? A job is just another piece of gear to be swapped in and out at the press of a button? As hardcore as you are about specialization this is the last stance I expected you to take.

I never say it "shouldn't matter". I said you either

1) Clear the content with your fav job, which is TOTALLY VIABLE.
2) Change job.

If you pick 1), then it's not "your fav job doesn't matter". Can you please list me ONE job in this game that can't clear content???

Inb4 BST PUP can't clear delve, they totally can. When you have 45 min in delve you just can.

I'm not sure how'd "hardcore about specialization" contradict my stance, since I obviously job change in this game to get things done. For entire thread I only have 2 stances:

1) Clear the content with your fav job but give up on max efficiency.
2) Make your own pt or job change.

The issue is that you guys don't accept either 1) nor 2), you just want another solution that drastically changed dev's design direction.

FYI, for my entire life all I ever play was hybrid job. I had 2 jobs in 2009, which is BLU and COR. For past 5 years I only had 2 job until 2014, I decided to lv RUN. None of my jobs are bandwagon jobs. I don't have an issue clearing all the endgame content in past 5 years. I do almost all the endgame content and merit pt on COR in 75. I did Abyssea mostly on BLU and brew on COR. If I need something I can't proc on BLU I drag friends. I farmed gil for mythic(when alex was 15k~20k each) and lv99 empy on BLU. I did all VW on both BLU and COR, and cleared all legion hall before SoA on COR, cleared NNI on BLU. After SoA was out, I cleared 2 delve1 zone before skill update on COR, after skill update I constantly clear 18 man delve on BLU as well.

I've never buy win in my life, except a loki's kaftan which wouldn't drop.

I don't have an issue clearing any content I want with my 2 jobs, I had slightly less efficiency than MNK+WHM during abyssea era, I probably had less efficiency than PUP/THF THF/DNC DNC/THF and BST/DNC in abyssea, but it's mainly because I didn't have a TH belt.

You can probably argue that I still job change, which is correct. But I don't expect I can play through the entire game on only 1 job. I don't have an issue clearing all game content with only 2 hybrid jobs, none of them are bandwagon jobs. I don't feel the need to yell at the dev to buff my jobs so they're as bandwagon as SAM MNK BRD WHM. I'm happy with it, thus I never understand why the above post bashed hybrid job, I don't mind playing a hybrid job doing 50%~60% of SAM as long as I can accomplish something else SAM can't do. The fact that I've cleared all the content np proved that there's nothing wrong with hybrid jobs.

If you guys insist to clear everything with 1 job then I have nothing to say lol. As "hardcore" about specialization as me I still job change.