Alluvion Skirmishes

[FrankReynolds]

cut out a spot there i think. Anywho!

It is fun, the event itself is fun. Its like Nyzul for Skirmishes, the bosses are fun, the coordinating is fun, and its a good mix of easy and difficult to where you dont need 119 Mythic SAMs, but you need competency and cooperation to win... I did a 3 body run with a RUN, BST, and NIN as my DD... and we won with little problems (except f**k the Uragnite, thats all). At the end of the day, this weapon can and will be the best gun you can get for COR with the right augments, what I guess I should have clarified is that of those 40-50 stones, most were NQ/+1 that I got from actually doing the event (on a good 3 Body run, You can get 6-7 or more Stones in a single run, alot of them +1 or +2... 40-50 is not a lot of stones, and +2's aren't as rare as old skirmish (Save leaves, which are still not super rare).

The event itself is where I get the joy from, the weapons are a nice side reward and some of them can be quite good for the jobs on them.... plus I have no reason not to believe these weapons will be upgraded to +1 or +2 with the next installments of delve, making them even more valuable.

This is directed more to the audience reading here, and not you... but If you want instant gratification and (as you described) "3 hours" to cap out on the weapon you want... do Delve, and then find a corner to afk in and wait for next patch complaining about no content... personally I'll take a slightly random augmenting system over 1 week lock outs or 1% drop rate any day.

There are only so many ways you can make an event last longer than launch day... Delve is nice, I don't deny that, Airlixirs are a nice system too, but I don't want everything in this game to be "Spend 3 hours at x event and be done until next update". They haven't hit "perfection" with Alluvian Skirmishes augment system, but its getting better.... I just hope they continue to learn and refine it, but as it stands now its a fun event with decent rewards for some jobs.

Perfect? no, but far from the terrible end of FFXI some people make it out to be.

I don't care if it's instant gratification. I just want it to be guaranteed gratification. It doesn't have to take a day or two, but lets be realistic. If it's probably gonna get outclassed by something else in a month or two, it shouldn't cost a butt load of money and or time. Making an event take 3 hours and you're done or making an event where you do it forever and never get what you want are not the only options for keeping people interested.

Let's be honest here. Those 8~ million worth of stones you spent are probably gonna be wasted when they release the +1 version that wipes all your augments in September.

I mean if it was the ONLY thing out there for the job and you NEEDED it to get things done, sure. Waste the money. But it's not either of those things.


If I choose not to do it because it's too easy and I finish in a week or I choose not to do it because the reward system is torture, the outcome is the same. I'm still bored and uninterested in the game.

[Karbuncle]

If I choose not to do it because it's too easy and I finish in a week or I choose not to do it because the reward system is torture, the outcome is the same. I'm still bored and uninterested in the game.

Not that I disagree with the entirety of your post, but this here, there is a difference regardless of it the outcome is the same or not. In instance A) You finish the event because its easy and you can blow through it, in instance B) you actively chose to ignore it because you've given yourself the "why bother" mentality. In situation B, you have only yourself to blame for not wanting to do the event.

More so, you're approaching this event like once you got your weapon you quit the event and spend the rest of the time investing gil into it instead. The stones come from the event, and you get a good deal of them from doing the event... Its not wrong to want the end result now, but I'll personally take farming an event that can be fun for stones to upgrade my weapon in this situation. I can't think of many more ways to make this event better. Yes, Random augmenting is annoying sometimes, but a long time ago in a thread much like this, Square enix asked the player base if they wanted Random Augments, or Static augments when it came to upgrading old gear (byakkos, etc).

Guess what the majority picked? You guessed it, the system thats in the game now. Random augments. Also, I haven't even so much as invested ~1mil or so into these stones(I think >_>)... and I'm already in possession of an above average weapon, and this is only when no ones online to do a run.

So yah, this isn't about a gil sink like you keep making it out to be, and its not as random or bad as you make it out to be, have you even tried augmenting a weapon? Do you even own one of the weapons? Its not like you have a random pool of 500 augments with 80 values to pull from, its a lot more focused and easier to get the proper augment than old Skirmishes.

Its not that bad.

As far as it being replaced soon... yah... thats par for the course for MMOs. FFXI didn't used to be like that, but it is now...

[Balloon]

I must say, I think their item level treadmill and weapon treadmill made a lot more sense before the 119 update the REM. They said they wanted weapons to be situationally useful and exchangeable depending on the content earlier in Adoulins life cycle, but by 119ing REMs you've basically said "If you have these weapons you will be set."

I wish that the augment part of this system was less convoluted. The weapons are... well, marginal upgrades in some situations, marginal downgrades in others. What ever happened to slotting? Could you ever trade Evoliths? They certainly weren't AHable, but they did a better job of representing what you could get than hundreds of thousands of random stones. I was really excited for this update, the weapons look incredible (seriously, damn site prettier than relics, some look better than mythics. All look better than Empys) and they alluded to the fact it was a lot less random. There is a system there, but it's... horrible.

As for the evolith, I don't think they were tradable, so it's obviously not a solution - But a system where the augment appeared on the stone itself (Possible, evoliths do show augments on them) would have been a little less frustrating. Part of me still wishes there was a point to that system... One without the complicated symbols and sizes.

[FrankReynolds]

Not that I disagree with the entirety of your post, but this here, there is a difference regardless of it the outcome is the same or not. In instance A) You finish the event because its easy and you can blow through it, in instance B) you actively chose to ignore it because you've given yourself the "why bother" mentality. In situation B, you have only yourself to blame for not wanting to do the event.

Just like I have only myself to blame for not liking country music or becoming an astronaut. No. The drop system sucks and I don't like it. The communities distaste for random augments has been widely expressed on this site and in the game. You can easily discern that people hate it by walking around town and seeing how many people are walking around with non-augmented and or poorly augmented gear. I mean at this point yorcia skirmish is a snooze fest where two people kill things and the erst just hang out and yet I see RME weapons on every other character these days and I've never seen a single person ever with perfectly augmented skirmish gear. hell, I don't think I've even seen perfect augments on one full set in screen shots. Let alone on one person in game.

This tells me that while some people may have varying degrees of tolerance for it, nobody likes it enough to finish it. I see a hundred shouts a day for year old delve content that everyone SHOULD be finished with because it lacks the staying power of random augments and maybe 3-4 for new skirm. Think about that. People are still doing the old crappy delve even though it's very job exclusive and not as fun as the new skirmish game play wise.

Why? The drops. The skirmish drop / augment system sucks.

More so, you're approaching this event like once you got your weapon you quit the event and spend the rest of the time investing gil into it instead. The stones come from the event, and you get a good deal of them from doing the event... Its not wrong to want the end result now, but I'll personally take farming an event that can be fun for stones to upgrade my weapon in this situation. I can't think of many more ways to make this event better. Yes, Random augmenting is annoying sometimes, but a long time ago in a thread much like this, Square enix asked the player base if they wanted Random Augments, or Static augments when it came to upgrading old gear (byakkos, etc).

Guess what the majority picked? You guessed it, the system thats in the game now. Random augments. Also, I haven't even so much as invested ~1mil or so into these stones(I think >_>)... and I'm already in possession of an above average weapon, and this is only when no ones online to do a run.

I vaguely remember that discussion. I don't however remember the majority asking for this crap. I remember a few people who have since quit the game to play FFXIV saying that they liked the sky augment system and the vast majority saying they hated it. I searched for the thread, but all I found were hundreds of threads of people complaining about bad random augments and begging to have some better way to get rid of / change them. I don't think this is it.

So yah, this isn't about a gil sink like you keep making it out to be, and its not as random or bad as you make it out to be, have you even tried augmenting a weapon? Do you even own one of the weapons? Its not like you have a random pool of 500 augments with 80 values to pull from, its a lot more focused and easier to get the proper augment than old Skirmishes.

Getting a weapon that has 3 less MAB than the one you have 5000 times and getting a weapon that has pet evasion on it 5000 times is exactly the same thing. Either way you have lost an inventory slot. It doesn't matter if they make it so specific that you can only get the stat you want. If it almost never gives enough of that stat to make it better than the weapon you already have, then it's worthless.

As far as it being replaced soon... yah... thats par for the course for MMOs. FFXI didn't used to be like that, but it is now...

This is exactly why I don't care about this event. The only reason I could see myself doing this is to sell the drops and fund a weapon from a more reliable source. Even then, It's not a reliable source of income because the stones that actually give the good augments are just as random as the augments.

[Karbuncle]

I think that, you want to hate the system, and you'll find ways to hate it regardless of my input on the topic, so in this effort my attempts to describe the improvements this augmenting system has over its predecessors is in vain.

The augmenting for Alluvian skirmish is not nearly as random and bad as you dramatize it to be and you'd know that if you gave it a chance... You may not like it and thats okay, everyone has different tastes... but its come a long way since Skygod/Abjuration gear.

I'd at least suggest getting a weapon and throwing some NQ stones at it to realize its improvements over the old system before damning it as you have. I for one would hate FFXI if every system for acquiring gear was the same, static augment, point based acquisition that is Delve, I like a little bit of variety in how I get and enhance my endgame gear. They still have a little ways to go on perfecting reward/effort ratio of a random augment system, but Its improving with time at least. For those who don't want to bother with lady luck, go buy a Delve II weapon and upgrade it... but I enjoy the fact SE still adds in these niche weapons that can be improved to be better than those weapons if people put enough time into it, rather it be from the direct event or farming gil to buy stones, at least you have the option to buy them and they're not ex.

[detlef]

He's not the only one. I'm not even going to bother pouring massive amounts of gil and/or effort into random augments when the gear is likely be replaced, possibly as soon as the next round of Alluvian Skirmish is introduced. Maybe it's worthwhile for you but for a lot of people it isn't.

[Karbuncle]

i'm spending a part of my adult life playing an MMO, "worthwhile" isn't in the equation. I go on a scale of "Is it fun" to "is it boring".

Its fun, therefor I play, and if its not fun for others, thats okay

My argument is merely an attempt to show other people that the augmenting system, while still needing improvements, has come a long way. I guess thats pretty much it.

[Afania]

The augmenting for Alluvian skirmish is not nearly as random and bad as you dramatize it to be and you'd know that if you gave it a chance... You may not like it and thats okay, everyone has different tastes... but its come a long way since Skygod/Abjuration gear.

I don't agree, IMO the augment system for Alluvian skirmish is slightly worse than WKR and skirmish3. The weapons are mostly sidegrade to current RME, unless you get very specific augment to give it a niche use.

In order for Doomsday to beat skirmish+2/delve2 R15 for melee you need specific augment like racc+rattk AND WSD or high haste. I was playing with spreadsheet, a doomsday without proper augment doesn't always beat delve2 R15 A due to the lack of STR.

In order for Doomsday to beat DP for /ra you also need specific augment like snapshot+6 AND racc+rattk or something similar, even then that's probably for none aftermath situation only when QD isn't doing high dmg.

If you fail to get the max number on any of those, the alternative option beats it, you do need to toss quite a large amount of gil to get the right number, so far I've got some real shit augment like elemental siphon on doomsday from HQ melee stone....I mean, serious? I don't think I can get augment like this on skirmish +2 gun?

No, I did not use mage stone on the gun and.....elemental siphon! D: Even fast cast or cure potency is more useful than this.

With ILV pushing beyond 119 soon, or maybe new tier of A.skirmish soon, IMO it's just a waste of gil to get the perfect augment on it.

The gil I can spend on another RME, or save for 119+ RME upgrade. Even an afterglow is better investment than this IMO.

WKR augment is the one that's done right IMO. A lot of the good choices you can make, since you can only get one weapon you really have to pick carefully. Certain augment on the weapons like OAT could make the weapon best in slot for certain situations, but inferior to 119 alternatives when you need acc, armor augments also opens up different build depending on the augment IMO it's perfect system.

Can't compare this with sky abj gears either. Some of the sky gears with augment are still being used, I still use bloodmask for example.

I don't see how I'd use Doomsday NQ when next tier of ILV come, I'm probably going to upgrade my DP and arma instead, screw current 119 options.

[Afania]

I'd at least suggest getting a weapon and throwing some NQ stones at it to realize its improvements over the old system before damning it as you have. I for one would hate FFXI if every system for acquiring gear was the same, static augment, point based acquisition that is Delve, I like a little bit of variety in how I get and enhance my endgame gear.

FYI I don't mind a random augment system for niche situations as long as I can get augment I want in IF I'm following the specific direction. If I want cure potency augment for my COR/WHM, I should be able to get it after a few tries by feeding it mage stones. If I want melee stat I should be able to get DA/haste/STP or something if I toss melee stones.

Getting elemental siphon or snapshot from melee stones isn't acceptable though.

[Karbuncle]

I don't agree, IMO the augment system for Alluvian skirmish is slightly worse than WKR and skirmish3. The weapons are mostly sidegrade to current RME, unless you get very specific augment to give it a niche use.

In order for Doomsday to beat skirmish+2/delve2 R15 for melee you need specific augment like racc+rattk AND WSD or high haste. I was playing with spreadsheet, a doomsday without proper augment doesn't always beat delve2 R15 A due to the lack of STR.

In order for Doomsday to beat DP for /ra you also need specific augment like snapshot+6 AND racc+rattk or something similar, even then that's probably for none aftermath situation only when QD isn't doing high dmg.

If you fail to get the max number on any of those, the alternative option beats it, you do need to toss quite a large amount of gil to get the right number, so far I've got some real shit augment like elemental siphon on doomsday from HQ melee stone....I mean, serious? I don't think I can get augment like this on skirmish +2 gun?

No, I did not use mage stone on the gun and.....elemental siphon! D: Even fast cast or cure potency is more useful than this.

With ILV pushing beyond 119 soon, or maybe new tier of A.skirmish soon, IMO it's just a waste of gil to get the perfect augment on it.

The gil I can spend on another RME, or save for 119+ RME upgrade. Even an afterglow is better investment than this IMO.

WKR augment is the one that's done right IMO. A lot of the good choices you can make, since you can only get one weapon you really have to pick carefully. Certain augment on the weapons like OAT could make the weapon best in slot for certain situations, but inferior to 119 alternatives when you need acc, armor augments also opens up different build depending on the augment IMO it's perfect system.

Can't compare this with sky abj gears either. Some of the sky gears with augment are still being used, I still use bloodmask for example.

I don't see how I'd use Doomsday NQ when next tier of ILV come, I'm probably going to upgrade my DP and arma instead, screw current 119 options.

You know, =.=a I did mention somewhere in the beginning of this conversation that this is comparing to Non RME alternatives. throwing RME into the equation is an obvious no brainer what will win, which is why i left them out of it all :I

Not to mention, considering how unique and detailed these new weapons are, I'd like to imagine they'll eventually be +1 and maybe +2'd, who knows, they could lead to a new tier of ultimate Adoulin weapons... they have the look going for them. This is just speculation...

Also, in terms of WKR Augments, I could see how those would work on Skirmish weapons and how this new system would be a step down from that... each stone could have covered one of the 4 elements instead of how they are now, and each one could have buffs based on that. But f that were the case theres a solid probability that we'd be limited to simply 2 augments like those weapons are, not the 3 we can get now... and the combination of Both acc/atk is what makes half these weapons worthwhile.

Would I have objected if the system was "Pick 1 Stone, turn it in for Acc/Atk+20, pick another stone, turn it in for WS DMG+6"? No, I probably wouldn't mind it... but I also think thats unrealistic even for SE. The only reason WKR Augments got such static and decent augments is because they're 115 weapons, already out of date and most of them still useless even with those augments... (save for fodder content).

Anyway, you make good points without it being a "FUFUURRGGRGLRGLRLGLR AUGMENTS", they could have done better, and I find it as stupid as you do that you can use a Melee stone and get a mage augment, it is wholely unnacceptable and an idiotic addition... but I see what they were trying to do... making it so each stone could still have that "well it could happen" use, or more cynically they could have just been like "This augmenting is too static, give them a 5% chance to be f**ked and get a non-stone augment". Either way, I dislike the concept of that part.

As i mentioned a few posts ago... I traded a +2 Ranged stone to my gun and got Fast Cast +3, was I furious? Yup... yup i was.