Request. Please allow trust in abbysea

[Lordkyron]

OK i'll say this.
So what if i don't want to "proc" in abysea and i just want the clear.
You know abyssea is all about KI farming, and nobody will help a guy to KI farm. (all the items needed) so using trust in abyssea will help killing mobs faster.
Also there are some mobs that have a one hit 1 hp move so having a trust may target them instead of me .
People mention that , if you have this atma or that atma, be what if WE DONE HAVE THOSE ATMAS? yes ask for help? but to farm those atmas we need KI and those ki are hard to get alone.

Anyway like i understand before i see why no dymamis but TBH so what if i get 2 bills for not proc? that would me my problem no?
People say , that they die easy and will die easier with trust , solution? DON'T USE TRUST. no body forces anyone to use them, but let the people that enjoy using them have the option to use.
It's about HAVING THE OPTION.
Trust in abyssea only hurts elitists ego and that's it. NOTHING MORE.

[Zeargi]

OK i'll say this.
So what if i don't want to "proc" in abysea and i just want the clear.
You know abyssea is all about KI farming, and nobody will help a guy to KI farm. (all the items needed) so using trust in abyssea will help killing mobs faster.
Also there are some mobs that have a one hit 1 hp move so having a trust may target them instead of me .
People mention that , if you have this atma or that atma, be what if WE DONE HAVE THOSE ATMAS? yes ask for help? but to farm those atmas we need KI and those ki are hard to get alone.

Anyway like i understand before i see why no dymamis but TBH so what if i get 2 bills for not proc? that would me my problem no?
People say , that they die easy and will die easier with trust , solution? DON'T USE TRUST. no body forces anyone to use them, but let the people that enjoy using them have the option to use.
It's about HAVING THE OPTION.
Trust in abyssea only hurts elitists ego and that's it. NOTHING MORE.

I think you're misunderstanding this as a whole. For Dynamis, you using Trust doesn't just impact you, it impacts everyone in the zone. Faster kills means that there's less mobs to kill as a whole and over-crowding of camps. I don't know what it's like on Cerberus, but there are a few times I just have to move complete to a different section of a dynamis zone because someone muscles in and they can kill much faster than I can. I don't want it to become a competition, because that's not fun. As for Abyssea, It's not that I don't want you to get win, or anything like that, and I'm not against the idea as a whole. It's just that they don't hold up well against bosses in most cases. I don't want to set someone up to fail, I'd rather give them the tools that'll actually get them what they need/want. If trusts were allowed to fight regular mobs then that's cool. Regular mobs and some of the 'Super Mobs'/NMs can be easy to handle (E.I. Megamaw Mikey). The Trusts would do well. But what about the Boss in say, Grauberg that switches modes from Magic Absorption to Physical Absorption. If you aren't engaged, then your trusts won't attack with either, plus you have to deal with it's AoE spells, and the random WS or Magic cast that may heal the mob for lots of HP. Next you have to think of atmas; Let's you have some, would these effect your trusts? OK, let's say they do... Now you're equipping atmas for a party, well... Which ones can YOU live without for the better of the 'group'. It's a lot of hassles to add to your stress. Not to mention, if one dies, there's no way to get it back without dying yourself. When you go it alone, it sucks, but at least you can prep and gear yourself the best way you can. When I go to Abyssea as a SMN, I know which atmas are good, and that will best compliment my job. Likewise, when I go THF or NIN, I pick ones that will compensate for my lack of a healer.

[Demonjustin]

The point of allowing trust into dynamis was not to proc/farm, it was to get clears.

How would SE differentiate between such a thing?

OK i'll say this.
So what if i don't want to "proc" in abysea and i just want the clear.
You know abyssea is all about KI farming, and nobody will help a guy to KI farm. (all the items needed) so using trust in abyssea will help killing mobs faster.
Also there are some mobs that have a one hit 1 hp move so having a trust may target them instead of me .
People mention that , if you have this atma or that atma, be what if WE DONE HAVE THOSE ATMAS? yes ask for help? but to farm those atmas we need KI and those ki are hard to get alone.

You can easily farm atma without using any, you only need a slightly evasive job or tank job, /NIN or /DNC, and Eminent gear. This isn't as hard as you're making it out to be, I used to solo some of these NMs with Atma that had nothing to do with survival but pure damage power to make it faster and that was back at level 90 with gear far weaker and less defensive than that of which you can get from your nearby sparks NPC. If you've easy to obtain level 117 gear that blows my gear at the time out of the water, with defensive stats that are far above and beyond what I had at the time, I'm confident you're safe. The first NM I'd advise you take down is Fistule who drops a powerful Regen/Defense Atma. The other NM, who could also serve as a first, would be Briareus who drops a powerful Attack Atma, and also would be your first zone boss win. He's arguably easier due to the fact he telegraphs his attacks which allows you to fend him off easier, but he's also more deadly in a sense. Lacovie and Kutharei are much harder but able to be managed with these two and sparks gear I think. The main thing you'd need to worry about with Lacovie is his KIs, which come from Gold Boxes as well as the other 2 hardest NMs in the zone, I suggest box farming with Amber(elemental WS as the killing blow) and Pearl(normal attack as the killing blow) lights. Kutharei drops a really great Regen Atma that would help with everything else in Abyssea, but it's also a very hard timed NM fight. Using 100k Cruor from worm parties and beating Briareus will award you two Lunar Abyssites, while you'll still have a hard time getting Atma due to having no hints, these will allow you to put on Stronghold and Mounted Champion(Kutharei's Atma) for 35 Regen and some other defensive stats, making things much easier.

Anyway like i understand before i see why no dymamis but TBH so what if i get 2 bills for not proc? that would me my problem no?
People say , that they die easy and will die easier with trust , solution? DON'T USE TRUST. no body forces anyone to use them, but let the people that enjoy using them have the option to use.

If the question is a matter of selfishness, which is really how you portray it, then you're making no better example of selfishness than with this very point you're trying to make. While I'm sure you're now thinking "I'm selfish? What about those damned elitists!?" you're being just that by saying all of this because you're not even once giving a thought to the other people in Dynamis when you enter.

Anyway like i understand before i see why no dymamis but TBH so what if i get 2 bills for not proc? that would me my problem no?

No. It's not strictly your problem when you do this. Let's assume there are 20 mobs in each race of enemies in each zone of Dynamis. Now lets assume that there's a 5 minute respawn timer for these mobs. Now, if there are 27 people in Dynamis split between these spots evenly you're looking at 3 people per mob group, 7 mobs per person. If you add another person to any group you're looking at 5 mobs per person in that group, add one more and it's down to 4 mobs per person. Now the rate of 7 mobs every 5 minutes is hardly the max speed these people could kill, but the speed at which they proc and kill together probably isn't far from this. If you add in a 4th person to a camp you must assume they proc as well, while lowering it to 5 mobs a person and having a terrible effect on the amount of mobs per person and thus, their productivity, it's at least balanced out decently still.

Now, if this 4th person doesn't proc however, you've a large problem on your hands. This person may kill quickly, without any care to proc they will steam roll through mobs so quickly that it'll likely become 3 mobs per person, and 10 for the one not procing. This person not procing mind you is getting a max of 1 currency per kill, while the other 3 people are getting 2 to 5 pieces of currency per kill. At the end of their 2 mobs, the person who killed 10 would be lucky to get 2 currency, while the people who killed only 3 mobs will likely have at least 8~10 each. To explain why this is selfish you have to look at the time these people are wasting. Originally I said people kill at roughly a speed of 7 mobs per 5 minutes, is this is the case then the people now killing 3 aren't even killing half of the mobs they could within these 5 minutes, they're only killing 3 because the rest are dead due to this new person who's not procing killing 10 of them. Their normal 7 mobs would drop between 14 and 35 currency total, now it's down to 6 to 15. As you see, the fact one person who wasn't procing entered this area the currency per person, as well as the total currency obtained between all people, has drastically dropped.

This, is why it's selfish to ask for Trusts if the intent isn't to proc. By not procing a player has a massively detrimental effect on everyone else near them in Dynamis due to the fact they're going to kill many more mobs than the others will, and thus, reduce the amount of mobs they can kill. Right now, not many people do this, those who do Dynamis learn how to proc via wiki, a friend, a LS-mate, or simply experimentation. If you add Trust to the mix you make Dynamis easier, and killing mobs without procs easier. This means more people will kill without the discretion of procs and as a result the number of mobs will go down, reducing the amount of currency other players obtain as a result. Thus, in the end, while it's your problem that you're not getting much currency, it's everyone else's problem that you're killing everything in sight and there are fewer mobs to fight as a direct result of your doing.

Trust in abyssea only hurts elitists ego and that's it. NOTHING MORE.

I could list a ton of reasons I'd rather not open that box, but this post is long enough with just Dynamis, unless you ask me to elaborate, I'll leave that be.

[Demonjustin]

Sorry for the double post, I feel like this is going to be a long one and that one, is long enough. First I want to say though, I'm cutting out a lot of your BS, I'm sticking strictly to the points you seem to be trying to make.To address a small bit of what I deleted, yes, many higher end players don't help others, legitimate complaint in some cases and I agree with the sentiment. Moving on.

Look. The OP obviously missed the Abyssea event, which means ZERO atmas and with how elitists refuse to help "gimps" unless they pay or the "gimp" stoops down to their level and starts to use "mules" aka bots they can't get stuff done as easily as you. Its like you all forgot how abyssea was when it first came out, no atmas, had to farm cruor to even use the cruor buffs, shouts for boss clears and/or great atma. Remember how it was not so easy? Face it the game is way different then it was. My only complaint if any is that they really need to stop balancing AROUND elitists and balance against them (they are starting to kind of)

While yes things have changed over the years since Abyssea was released and it's much harder to find people to help out with it, you're overlooking one very important thing. Thing's have changed over the years since Abyssea was released.

It was once the highest level content in the game filled with dangers and NMs that could destroy the average player, filled with unknown systems for XP and drop obtainment the likes of which no player in FFXI had ever seen from this game before. It was a totally new area with totally new rules, all at the highest level you could possibly reach and no training wheels to help you on your way to learning how to ride this bike that would surely kill you. Today, it's not that bad, you have all of Abyssea's features and rules listed on various wikis that you're free to read upon a whim, all of the information right there at your fingertips which is far different than back then. You also have Records of Eminence gear, level 117 gear that blows every piece of gear in the entire game from level 80, 85, and 90 caps out of the water by miles. The differences are vast, that's undeniable, but it's not as though it's a one way difference where Abyssea went from being this hard content you did with friends to make it easy into this hard content that you can't find anyone to do it with you thus leaving it impossible to progress through. It's a piece of content you could do before with friends, and can do today alone, because today's gear is far better and far easier to obtain, which yes, makes up for the lack of people doing the content with you. Even without Atma it's possible for a player to progress through Abyssea and make their own progress in the event over time by farming easier NMs and working their way up, you know, the same way we did starting out with our parties. I know it's not exactly the same, never claimed it was or would be, in fact I said quite the opposite as did you. If you want to look only to how the event got harder, then yes, it's an insane trial no one could possibly face, but in reality it's much easier than it was back then because now days you don't even have to rely on other people to help, it's all up to you and your own abilities.

Would it kill you to help? oh wait it would cause your ego would explode as the only thing you'd get is a "Thank you" and not shiny items or gil Because if you are to help anyone but your fellow elitists you will be shamed on BG for daring to "lower yourself" ha ha ha.

It's nothing to do with shaming or the lack of a reward for many people including myself. It's a matter of time as well. I've little time to do things I truly enjoy, in fact most of what I do even on this game bores the hell out of me, if I've the time to help someone then I've likely the time to enjoy myself for a short bit and if that's the case which should I really do? Relax and do something I'd like, or spend my time trying to teach someone the workings of an event whilst helping them with something that not only bores me but gets me nothing else done in return? If you want the cold hard truth it's that anyone asking for help from someone who's short on time to do what they enjoy as it is, is no less selfish than those who actually do have time but spend it only doing that which rewards them in ways they feel makes it worth their time.

Can you imagine how hard CoP would be now if they never lifted the cap? even with trusts there's no way some of the battlefields could be done solo, that now there is no static linkshells or groups for working on missions? (the only thing I don't miss about that is being demanded to spam cs's) Its like pulling teeth to get a little help if you are starting fresh these days, cause elitists cover their ears "All I heard was that this gimp demands WE help them LOL stop asking for handouts!!"

False equivalence. CoP had they never lifted the cap would be exactly as hard today as it was years ago baring job adjustments that affected lower levels and new jobs that were released. Abyssea never had restrictions to level and rather in an opposite fashion got easier over time due to increased level caps and extremely better gear being available at a moments notice to all players. I hate content locks and content that can't be completed due to outdated rules or restrictions, that said this isn't one such case.

Its not like they are going to never do the abyssea event again anyway so new players or returning from long ago will get a chance in time.

This is why I wish they'd make it permanent, not temporary, and is exactly why I said that rather than asking for Trust in Abyssea anyone who wants Abyssea to be easier to access should actually just ask for this event to be made permanent. The event will get you much further much faster and is much easier to both implement and get support for as it's something they've already shown they've no problem doing anyways, it's just right now they're doing it at limited times. Arguing to remove a restriction such as time is much better than an argument to add things to the game because adding things takes development time which affects everyone, implementing something that already exists simply so that more people can access it, doesn't take much time at all.

I only agree with no Trusts in Dynamis as it'd be a hindrance more than a help, plus once leveled enough its easy to solo and once you got an iLevel weapon you can easily solo the DC mobs...but oh no that would mean more "lol bsts" and "lol pup" showing up in dynamis oh noes!

I see this as sarcastic due to your last part of the comment. Due to that fact I refer you to my last post, which illustrates how one person who doesn't know how to do Dynamis can ruin other people's runs very quickly and very easily. That said, with how you seem to act toward what you believe to be "elitists" I don't know that you'd even care about these people anyways, so it's hard to really address this comment in general.

[Pixela]

How about this change instead then,

Aby:Give everyone 2 atma slots, RR, Minkin and some heavy regen atma. Aby is now open to pretty much everyone, they can still get other atmas like apoc etc but they are at least able to get in there and do stuff.

Dynamis: remove the boss clear system (or just heavily nerf them) and just let everyone have access to all areas, some of these bosses cast death etc and a clear system at the state this game is in is just stupid.

CoP missions used to be level capped, they changed it because nobody did it in groups anymore, same applies to aby and dyna.

This is old content that is hard to get into for fresh players, these changes let everyone play around in them and not just the guys that got all these things in groups long ago.

Also having someone come and clear the content for you is pretty much pointless, you're either playing the game or having someone else play it for you. The point is to either be part of the fight or the content needs to be changed.

Having someone walk in and kill it while you watch is about as much fun as turning off the PC and cleaning your room, if you have to resort to getting someone to clear content for you then the game genuinely is not worth playing anymore. Even clearing promies as they are now where you kerb stomp them solo is better than having someone else do it all for you.

[Demonjustin]

Aby:Give everyone 2 atma slots, RR, Minkin and some heavy regen atma. Aby is now open to pretty much everyone, they can still get other atmas like apoc etc but they are at least able to get in there and do stuff.

This is basically what I keep saying. Make this event permenant. It has 11 atma, 100k Cruor, 1 Lunar Abyssite, and all at the cost of opening a box right next to the first NPC anyone ever encounters related to Abyssea in any ways. It's the perfect solution to the issue people see here.

Dynamis: remove the boss clear system (or just heavily nerf them) and just let everyone have access to all areas, some of these bosses cast death etc and a clear system at the state this game is in is just stupid.

That I agree with actually. While I don't see any problem with the need to have wins and I think they can all be soloed, again, in Eminent gear, I think it makes sense to do it.

CoP missions used to be level capped, they changed it because nobody did it in groups anymore, same applies to aby and dyna.

That~ is still a false equivalent. CoP had a level cap that until they removed the cap was keeping the content the same in difficulty no matter how much you leveled or how good of gear you got unless under that level cap. Dynamis and Abyssea both are content meant for level 90s and under, at the same time the level cap has passed them by far and the content as a result has gotten much easier all the while. I understand what you're getting at, but still, this isn't a good comparison.

[Pixela]

This is basically what I keep saying. Make this event permenant. It has 11 atma, 100k Cruor, 1 Lunar Abyssite, and all at the cost of opening a box right next to the first NPC anyone ever encounters related to Abyssea in any ways. It's the perfect solution to the issue people see here.

Why on earth did they remove that, there is no reason that should of been taken out. Even if they made it just for atmas, lunar abyssite and stones it would of been enough.

They knew it was an issue to add it in the first place yet some kind of balance was being thrown off on it being made permanent apparently.

[Ramzi]

Those dynamis bosses can be a pain. Got the Bastok boss down to 5% really fast on my THF then he nailed me with Death... even in my 115-119 gear, no resist, killed me on the spot. Kind of dumb.... not that having trusts would help you with that, since you would almost definitely have hate.

Decided to spawn one of the shrouded NM's in windurst on my THF, and got a couple of adds, but since it was the RDM I spawned (I had no idea, was just messing around) he chainspelled and nuked me down faster than I could heal up with /DNC. Again, with fairly high level gear, no full resists on his magic- think a Water 4 hit me for 800+ damage which is ridiculous, so while Dynamis is definitely soloable, it's got some nasty surprises if you want to tackle the boss type mobs.

[Malthar]

lol, blame Michaelangelo, I had nothing to do with it

but hey, if they can put it in a church it passes muster for me

What about the floating, tentacled, ball thingy?

[Malthar]

??? You don't need a second computer to run another character. That probably makes it harder actually. Windower lets you run multiple characters off one. Also, I bought a new computer just a month ago and it has no trouble at all running this game.

You use Windower? I didn't know the Official Windower allows you to run multiple instances of FFXI.