Fixes to Current Ninja Job

[Lynchilles]

Have you even tried tanking on a low level ninja these days? For those unlucky enough to not get a keyspot/leech have to suffer pretending to be PLDs for quite a while before they even become even worth using. Every DD and their cousin can rip aggression from them, the only fact theyre still used as low level tanks is because it's hard to break a trend. NIN is not meant to, and never was meant to be a 'tank' pre Abyssea, and whoever in the community thought it'd be cool to waste consumables on doing so made a really awful trend.

YOU try dealing with trying to pretend to be a tank, because quite frankly, I hate it. Your damage dealing potential until 60+ is awful, spamming consumables doesn't really help if a DD can cap his hate before you can, and most people want to sync to IT on mobs rather than VT for comfortable tanking; so you are basically eating shadows and wasting gil. If anything, low level nin needs some rounding off. Blade: Hi doesn't account for EVERY nin out there, and frankly is a bad example for saying it's hard to feel sorry for them.

If this is the case, then you're doing it wrong.

I'm currently leveling Ninja. I just hit level 65 yesterday. I've never had a problem holding hate against DD's in the party. So I don't know what you're talking about here.

As far as "Q.Q it wastes too much gil to level Ninja Q.Q" - then don't level it.

[Andylynn]

If this is the case, then you're doing it wrong.

I'm currently leveling Ninja. I just hit level 65 yesterday. I've never had a problem holding hate against DD's in the party. So I don't know what you're talking about here.

As far as "Q.Q it wastes too much gil to level Ninja Q.Q" - then don't level it.

Has nothing to do with 'doing it wrong,' you see that's the lovely part about anecdotes, you leave out those wonderful things called variables. You know, as if in you have a PL, where you sync, your squadmates, etc. Saying 'I can do this' without anything other than 'because I said I can' is evidence of nothing. Without a good thf I don't believe you would have any chance in Hades keeping aggro against a well armed SAM, WAR, or DRG using Penta Thrust out in Wajaom or Bhaflau.

[wish12oz]

I'm sorry but I have trouble feeling sorry for ninjas when I'm always seeing them spam Blade: Hi for 4-6k damage.

Ninja does a lot less damage then warrior, it honestly needs a damage output increase. So do a lot of other jobs though~

Throwing sucks, move past it, it doesn't need to be better.
Subtle Blow is an amazing thing.
I agree that our 2 hour and merits are mostly garbage, but I would be pretty angry if half this stuff got implemented the way you want it to.

[Shoko]

Ninja does a lot less damage then warrior, it honestly needs a damage output increase. So do a lot of other jobs though~

Throwing sucks, move past it, it doesn't need to be better.
Subtle Blow is an amazing thing.
I agree that our 2 hour and merits are mostly garbage, but I would be pretty angry if half this stuff got implemented the way you want it to.

Kinda have this feeling you mis-read my OP somehow. Didn't mention anything wrong about Subtle Blow, only that the merits are now overshadowed by gear and spells. Throwing actually had very high damage output a few years ago (higher than katana DoT), only that you had to main this via Fumas, which was both cost and inventory intensive-- didn't ask for it to be better, only changed so it's useful at all.

And honestly, I feel NINs damage output is fine, people are just afraid to ride Innin out to maximize on it.

[wish12oz]

Kinda have this feeling you mis-read my OP somehow. Didn't mention anything wrong about Subtle Blow, only that the merits are now overshadowed by gear and spells. Throwing actually had very high damage output a few years ago (higher than katana DoT), only that you had to main this via Fumas, which was both cost and inventory intensive-- didn't ask for it to be better, only changed so it's useful at all.

And honestly, I feel NINs damage output is fine, people are just afraid to ride Innin out to maximize on it.

Throwing only did more damage then meleeing with katanas if you were under 75 or just badly geared, especially a few years ago before tp gain was nerfed and you could not go below 5tp/hit minimum. Throwing is useful as a low lvl DDing hate keeping tool, its fine as it is, I would rather not have to carry MORE items all the time to keep my damage up. They should revamp 1 handed damage so its effective for harder mobs like 2 handed damage if anything.

Also: you cant ride innin out, It is just not feasible to do if you're at all good at ninja. If you're a bad ninja you can do it because you're doing terrible damage and not pulling hate, if you're a good ninja, you swing faster then most others and do a lot of damage so you're basically tanking most of the time, if not all of the time. Since this is the case it's probably better to go with yonin for the evasion so you cast shadows less compared to ininn, or nothing at all if you have acc issues, since you're tanking anyway.

I did a t2 einherjar the other day, the warrior did 122k, I did 90k, both have empyreans and are very very very well geared, and had the same buffs the whole time, and we're both good at winning parses. Ninja needs to do more melee damage threw meleeing, not throwing, thanks SE! (other funny info: the gandiva did like 50k, cause rng is effing terrible, and our last dd was another ukon war who was pulling and also did 50k~ we won the t2 in like 15 min if youre all wondering)



EDIT: pretty sure both ninja spells let you break the subtle blow cap too, thats the rumor thats going around, never tested myself.

[Shoko]

Throwing only did more damage then meleeing with katanas if you were under 75 or just badly geared, especially a few years ago before tp gain was nerfed and you could not go below 5tp/hit minimum. Throwing is useful as a low lvl DDing hate keeping tool, its fine as it is, I would rather not have to carry MORE items all the time to keep my damage up. They should revamp 1 handed damage so its effective for harder mobs like 2 handed damage if anything.

From where you're coming from, you sound like you're doing OK with katana DDing, so saying "..carry MORE items all the time to keep my damage up." is a silly statement, lol. I'm very sure of katana DoT myself, but I'd love to see light return to flinging shuriken... you know, like a ninja should. Bringing it back as a hate keeping tool is all the more reason.

Also: you cant ride innin out, It is just not feasible to do if you're at all good at ninja. If you're a bad ninja you can do it because you're doing terrible damage and not pulling hate, if you're a good ninja, you swing faster then most others and do a lot of damage so you're basically tanking most of the time, if not all of the time. Since this is the case it's probably better to go with yonin for the evasion so you cast shadows less compared to ininn, or nothing at all if you have acc issues, since you're tanking anyway.

As I was coming home, I was almost certain you'd make that argument on Innin, to which I have no real refute other than to place Innin and Yonin on separate timers (something I didn't want to include in OP for the very reason). I have no problem DD/tanking with Innin on, I usually ride it to the ends of the earth on most everything outside of Abyssea NMing, as people I do events with are usually WARs, SAMs, etc and they hold hate often (if it matters I'm well geared outside of missing AF3+2 feet and Kannagi due to lazy). Also of the fact that Lv. 90 Evasion Skill and Gear places you so high in rank vs outside-of-abyssea mob levels, not using Yonin is a minimal loss.

Not a fan of deliberately trying to win parses in any situation, but it's pretty cool that Kannagi isn't terrible outside of Abyssea, lol.

[Afrohatch]

You don't need Blade: Hi to be a good ninja

[ThaiChi]

You don't need Blade: Hi to be a good ninja

^This, this, a thousand times this.

Its funny how the Kannagi NINs on my server think they're the shit AFTER they get their Empy. I can think of one in particular that is always harassing me for advice. I've been playing NIN since 06 and let me tell you, across all the low-mid levels I was still able to hold hate. Pre-abyssea, there were very few PLDs that could take hate from me solidly, even doing NIN/DRK for things like Kirin and Omega. The only level range I can honestly say I had a hard time holding hate was before I had Utsu: Ni and the elemental wheel. I don't, by any means think I'm an exceptional NIN but I know how to play my job. I could still do the same thing I do now effectively even without Blade: Hi. My favorite thing about having the real Empy is having the aftermath.

NIN doesn't need any real adjustments, the problems with PLD existed before abyssea came around. They are really the ones who need an overhaul. That being said, Utsu: San, Jubaku: Ni {Yes, please}.

[Andylynn]

^This, this, a thousand times this.

Its funny how the Kannagi NINs on my server think they're the shit AFTER they get their Empy. I can think of one in particular that is always harassing me for advice. I've been playing NIN since 06 and let me tell you, across all the low-mid levels I was still able to hold hate. Pre-abyssea, there were very few PLDs that could take hate from me solidly, even doing NIN/DRK for things like Kirin and Omega. The only level range I can honestly say I had a hard time holding hate was before I had Utsu: Ni and the elemental wheel. I don't, by any means think I'm an exceptional NIN but I know how to play my job. I could still do the same thing I do now effectively even without Blade: Hi. My favorite thing about having the real Empy is having the aftermath.

NIN doesn't need any real adjustments, the problems with PLD existed before abyssea came around. They are really the ones who need an overhaul. That being said, Utsu: San, Jubaku: Ni {Yes, please}.

Was this before or after 2h update :P?

[Hoshi]

5) Mijin Gakure: Shouldn't be a two-hour ability, plain and simple. Personally, I haven't met many ninja that have used this 2 hour in any strategic way, other than to death warp home. It's original intent was probably for it to be a huge instantaneous damaging final attack to save the user's experience points as party members flee to safety, or saved due to the ability killing the target. Unfortunately, the damage for the 2 Hour is often extremely low to be effective in defeating the target at all. This ability was later converted as a nod towards the accepted tanking role that the players gave to NIN-- but remaining on a 2 hour timer makes the ability vastly useless. Placing it on a 10 minute timer with something else added and replacing it as the 2-hour, seems more reasonable (this also in turn brings more value to the mythic weapon, Nagi).

Since they adjusted mijin gakure it's a remarkably useful 2-hour. It allows NIN to quickly remove their weakened status and resume tanking. If SE made mijin gakure into a 10 minute ability I imagine they would remove the ability to recover from mijin with half hp and no weakened status and then mijin gakure would be completely useless.