Dragon Jug Pets

[WoW]

Great points as usual Leo, thought I was the only one whom noticed that, everyone else just dismissed it. However, I just let it go because they seem adamant about not adding dragon pets. Nauls and puks have absolutely nothing to do with dragoon wyverns. Supposedly, dragoons specialize in dragons, but bst are the masters of the animal world, but blu is better at exploiting beasts. This is what I was alluded to as-well; thought I was the only one whom noticed that bst and blu overlap. Blu has Animal killer traits and special abilities that are vastly superior to any jug pet. As a career bst; I never felt some type of way. Blus also have access to powerful monster abilities that we do not have on jugs. Take a look at their spell list http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Blue_Mage

Notice how many spells overlap with our jug pet's ready moves. Also, moves like Natures meditation were mysteriously removed from the chapuli, and we still do not have a scorp (death scissors) Oh, and radiant breathe (A wyvern move...uh,oh, someone call the dragoon police).

Blu has access to dragonic moves that dragoons, whom supposedly specialize in dragons do not. Dragoons were never Naul, puk, or wild wyvern oriented; they have domesticated wyverns. I mean, we are acting as if dragoons have been using nauls, wild wyverns, and puks since RoZ. 12 years into XI and I have never seen a dragoon with any of those guys. This is something new imo, to block beastmasters. There are probably no intentions on adding bigger wyverns.

Essentially, an naul, puk, and ajattara jug would be akin to a blu using these draconic abilities. If drgs were gonna get bigger wyverns, they would have before blu gained access to draconic powers. For instance, rngs were always gun wielders, way before to cor release. If a dragoon received a naul, puk, or a wild wyvern, they would equate to a capable dd with jug pets. Bst is essentially a one-handed job, drgs are a two handed beast of a dd.

Question, are there any plans to give dragoons a Naul, puk, or ajattara? If there are, dragoons have waaaaaaay better jug pets than a bst everrrrrr had^^ I mean wow, we are the "beastmaters" sitting over here with grasshoppers and rabbits while dragoons get beastly pets. Also, they do not have to pay money for jugs, but just call upon them, ouch. The call wyvern timer would also suck for a pet job. If dragoons do get one of these monsters, how would they use healing breathe? These mobs have no such moves......As Leo alluded to, most dragoons favor the master, the wyvern is their for support (iirc), completely different from a naul, puk, or wild wyvern; these mobs do not use healing breathes. They are more dd-oriented, suited for a beastmaster.

Imo, dragon pets more sense on beast because they are true pets, as opposed to a small wyvern whom serves as a generic pet, that is not fully controllable. Yes this is a double standard, because several jobs overlap to some degree, Sch/blm/whm/rdm, blu/bst, cor/rng, but whatever.

But yea, thx Leo, it is something that has been thinking about for awhile now. I took dragoons into consideration, but these monsters just scream bst as opposed to utility wyvern. If a puk or even a naul are unfair to drgs, then how does SE feel about ready moves and blue magic "Wink"

I accept the double standard, but nonetheless, it is a double standard (I am not dumb, I acknowledge this and nothing can change my mind, but I accept it).

Fun to imagine what it would be like using a puk: Elemental TP Bonus/Zephyr Mantle. How about a Naul? Hurricane Wing, Dragon Breath (Dare i say, best dd move on a pet ever^^), Absolute Terror, and Horrid Roar. I really do not see any issues with these two. A puk is small to begin with and Wyrms are already pygmy sized. "Shrugs"

[Mitruya]

I can't speak for SE or anyone else so this is my own humble opinion.
Yes, there's some lore around the DRG pet, and it's a domesticated version of the wild wyverns which are part of the Dragon family, and it has abilities unique to it (i.e. Healing Breath).
I think, like any other pet job, we wish we had customization in colors and naming.
The big thing is the 20 minute Call Wyvern timer (which used to be longer, I know), the uselessness of elemental breaths (which BLUs also suffer from), and like all pets, survivability in endgame.
We look to Achtelle and wish we had a pet like Bravo. http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Bravo (SE really dropped the ball by not tying in Achtelle to SoA.)
If BSTs got a puk, fine. (A puk is part of the Dragon family, but technically a chimera and does not have breath attacks.) If BSTs got a Naul or Ajattara, then we'd be upset that SE didn't give us an upgraded pet. Both wild Wyrms and Wyverns have elemental breaths; the only thing missing is the Healing Breath which is basically tied into our job (either by subjob and/or JA).
Now, I play BLU also. From my personal experience, no one specifically sets Animal Killer traits, and I can't think of the last time I noticed an "intimidation" message. Radiant Breath is only used as an Voidwatch and Abyssea proc. You'll never see it or really any other breath spell being used by a BLU. I am not sure how BLUs can be treading on BST or DRG toes here (pet wyverns do not have a light element breath). As for Ready moves and blue spells, and the lackluster choice of pets, well that's all on SE.

[WoW]

Regardless of the usage, blu has draconic powers, Pyric Bulwark, Absolute Terror, Wind Breath, Thunder Breath, and radiant breathe. The "ready moves" blu has are vastly superior to any jug, aka charged whisker; so I do not see validity in that argument.

Question, how would you guys feel if SE released pets with moves that were removed from that monster, but given to another job? That is what happens to bst. Blu has nearly all of our ready moves and more. Why do dragoons feel a certain way about bst getting draconic pets, but completely dismiss blu for having draconic breathe attacks/powers? That is a double standard regardless of how you slice it.

Dragoons have absolutely nothing to do with nauls; as you mentioned, it is wyverns (Wild and domesticated). Fine, give dragoons a wild wyvern and give bst the naul and puk. Everyone is suddenly acting as if drgs have these pet ties to every single dragon in vanadiel. Bahamut is also a dragon, but he has nothing to do with drg pets.

Also, the breathe attack argument in not valid because non-draconic mobs also have breathe attacks.
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Raptor_%28MON%29
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Ve...ptor_%28MON%29
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Manticore_%28MON%29
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Rams
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Adamantoises
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Crawlers

One of our jugs already has breathe attacks. http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Crude_Raphie.

Drgs do not mind puks; however, they will be upset if they added a naul, they both are dragons, so what is the issue? Drgs do not mind puks because they are pretty sub-par, dd wise, although it is a dragon. Drgs know this; drgs are incapable of being pet jobs, more focus is placed on the master, but suddenly, drgs are these dd pet jobs whom need stronger pets because bst wants them.

Nauls are pretty small, they are not big dragons, hence the "big" argument is also invalid. This guy, http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Snaggletooth_Peapuk, appears to be bigger than this dude http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Naul.

I don't get it.......there are huge puks, but small dragons. there are also smaller puks, but larger dragons. That size argument is pretty lame/weak imo. The breathe argument is also weak. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/C..._Fantasy_VI%29, these chimera do indeed use breathe attacks and several non-dragon monster do as-well. One of our jugs already have a breathe attack. Puks are also known as the wind wyverns http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Puks, however, drgs do not mind us getting a wyvern spinoff but not a naul. Double standard.

There is no valid argument against Naul or pet jugs; mostly hating/holding bst back imo; SE dissed bst, plain and simple, blu has nearly all of our traits and ready moves, but giving us a Naul jug is unfair. I wonder was SE thinks about bst and blu overlapping? Is that fair? We specialize in animals, but they have animal's special abilities.

Drg and bst could live with overlapping as-well, give them a bigger wyvern, but let us have a naul jug. I would also like to see how dragoon functions with a wild wyvern (Grin), wild wyverns do not have healing breathes. Personally, I do not believe there are any intentions on adding bigger wyverns, just a hater move on SE's part. As long as the notion of a bigger wyvern is out there, bst will not be able to use dragon jugs. The bst community is not stupid, but maybe we are, for playing a crapped on job.

Give drgs a bigger wyverns and allow us to have a naul/puk jug, problem solved. Dragoons have wyverns, not puks or wyrms; there should not feel some type of way.

Edit: Yes, I do agree, this is a topic worthy of a healthy discussion; I am kind of sorry i gave up on it. I could deal with a valid reason, i am an extremely understanding guy, but the reasoning is contradictory. Rngs specialize in guns, but corsairs get them as-well; Geo and blm both have aoe magic attacks; bst and blu both use animal abilities......I don't get it, SE is picking bst out of the whole litter as opposed to all offenders.

Iirc, bst could tame wyrms in FFTA and drgs were present in that game as-well.

[Mitruya]

The written word makes me sound more argumentative than I intend, so I apologize for that.
I am one player among thousands; I don't speak for all DRGs or all BLUs. Also who the hell knows what SE's philosophy is. They have and will go back on their word.
I don't hate BST, and in fact I have liked or supported the majority of your suggestions. (I used to play the job, too.)
I guess I never thought about the "draconic" powers of BLU, and that's probably because they rarely get used. Absolute Terror had a brief claim to fame in Foret Delve, Radiant Breath is proc-only. The breath spells are by and large pretty meh and there have been other threads on here discussing that. I don't know how many people even have a slot to fit in Pyric Bulwark.
So, to me there is a difference between seeing another job with a larger dragon than mine, versus seeing a job that has dragon-attacks but hardly utilizes them. It's not about who has what move, to me anyway. As you pointed out, the moves are different.
If BSTs want to be able to use Hurricane Wing or whatever, I don't care. I'm not asking for a pet that does all the Dragon moves. DRGs are just saying it's time for the little baby to grow up. SE could even institute a new model for it.
We can agree that all pets need a boost to be able to withstand endgame content. Just because a pet is bigger doesn't guarantee survivability.
BLU has animal abilities because that is part of the job. MP cost and spell-set limits restrict how much we go around spamming them. BLUs don't typically set any of the killer-trait spell combinations (not at lvl99 anyway).
Again it's all on SE as to what job has what move; I don't have a say in that. Do I agree that BST needs better Ready moves? Sure. I don't care if both BST and BLU have Death Scissors, for instance. If we were in a party together, we probably wouldn't be using the same moves anyway. Other jobs overlap already, so who cares?
The size issue is also on SE. I don't care who waves around the biggest ... pet. ;p
I *think* (but I do not know for sure until I repeat the DRG job quest on another character) that it's SE that's stating that DRGs are tied to dragons. All sub-families? I have no idea. Maybe it's just wyverns.
I took the time to look up the Dragon family for my post but I didn't feel the need to go digging around for breath attacks. (What does the breath attacks from another game have to do with this?) Until SE buffs them, breath attacks don't matter on ANY job. In fact I think there have been requests to let us control when the pet wyvern uses it because it gives it such a pause in DPS.
This is not a recent development just because you started asking for dragon-jugs. There have been threads before requesting wyvern customization and bigger size. Again, look to Achtelle. When WOTG was released and people saw her, that probably got people thinking. Just like BSTs want to be like Lhu Mhakaracca with her rocs. And don't the beastmen bring in scorpions?
This is not DRG vs. BST. I want to see all jobs get balanced. I'm not saying, "oh you can have a puk 'cause it sucks." Honestly I didn't think about whether it would be a bad pet or not. But I guess you're thinking that as a jug, SE will nerf it.

[WoW]

No need to apologize; this is more-so directed at the game's contradictory design and players have nothing to do with that. Sorry if my words come off as wrathful; but i digress.

Blu does have animal abilities, because it is part of the job, but bst can call upon charmable and non-charmable monster, because it is part of their job. Why should we be restricted but blus are not? Dragons are indeed a part of our pet repertoire, because we can charm a dragon. Beastmen has also tamed dragons, most of which are not dragoons. Also, we are restricted to a ready charge meter, which prevents us from spamming dragon breathe. A dragon mob is charmable, hence the potential is there, that is all on SE. If dragons were never meant to be charmed, then all dragon mobs would be un-charmable, but then again, hippos and adamantoise are uncharamble, but yet, they are jug pets.

Also, I agree, size in not valid, as you stated, who cares about waving around the biggest (pretty funny). I am all for bigger/damaging wyverns, however, I am not sure they will give you guys a wyrm. Not sure how drg would function with a naul -esque pet (No healing breathes).

You know what I say? Fine SE, give dragoons a naul or ajattara pet; I will wait^^ "Whistles" Dragoons specialize in dragons right? Well, let them have a naul and a ajattara^^ i have no issue if SE truly intended for drgs to specialize in drgs, but that does not appear to be the case (because we can charm a dragon and kindred bst tame wyverns). While you are doing that, just realize that those two mobs are far better than any crappy pet we have seen, hence i guess an Elasmoth is fair game, right? We want bigger/stronger pets as-well, because, you know, we specialize in taming wild beast.

Mitruya, I don't want you to feel like I am attacking you, that is not the case, but I digress^^

Also, i found this thread http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...de-our-wyvern?.

[Mitruya]

No worries ^^. Contradictory design is the best way to put it. And yep, that was one of the threads I was thinking of.

[WoW]

Yea, the OP mentioned wyverns, not wyrms or puks.

That dev response is much appreciated, any dev response is appreciated, but it still left a bitter taste, because it did not clear up anything.

"Dragons, wyverns and wyrms are often confused by adventurers young and old." And then, "It should be noted that these wild wyvern are distinctly different from the domesticated pet wyvern, which are smaller and significantly more docile than their wild counterparts." (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org). Idk SE, seems like an excuse to me. Several ppl attested to contradictory game design. Specialization in XI is laughable; many jobs overlap and are quite good at what they do. blms,rdms, and geo use offensive magic; Dnc, brds, and thfs specialize in daggers; run specializes in great swords, but drks and wars are more damaging with them; mnk and pup both specialize in hand-to-hand; Nin was a dual wield specialist, but multiple jobs got them; except for bst of course.

Imo, there is nothing SE could say to convince ppl otherwise, the only thing that can clear this up is action. Honestly, what can they say?

Another thing, lets take a look at their jug pet track record; http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category%3AFamiliars. Mostly lazy designs, the ready moves are sub-par and a plethora of those pets are repeats. I am by no means a game developer/producer, but what does it take to copy an existing pigmy wyrm into jug form? They recycle past jugs anyway.

If drgs got the stuff mentioned in this thread http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...-Future-as-DD; I don't think they will give 2 craps about a naul jug.

Ophannus brought up an interesting point; http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post514059. Which brings me to this, could you imagine a drg with a naul or wyvern spamming breathe attacks? I would dump my bst in a heartbeat to play dragoon. No ready meter necessary, just need your own tp to be at 1000. Not to mention, a naul and wild wyvern are superior to any bst jug.

If drgs received master and pet buffs that allowed them to compete at endgame, this would be a non-issue imo. Both of the jobs are in the dumps hence everyone is reaching/fighting for any scraps they can get.

Boost drgs and give us a naul; it is not that serious, really.........many past final fantasy titles had overlapping jobs, including this one. What specialization? Translation, we do not want to add them, so we are not, ok? I mean, I can take the truth, if they do not want to add them, just say so, specialization is extremely contradictory.

[WoW]

Contradictory design aside; I have a question; what can you guys implement SE? As it pertains to Jug pets.

Are any of these guys implementable?












Just a few monsters i see ppl asking for in these forums. The majority (Like all of them) of our pets are pretty sub-par, as in, non-damaging/repeats whom are quite small.

All of these guys are within the beast arsenal, as it pertains to the seven monster families; beast, vermin, amorph, aquan, lizard, bird, plantoid, and birds. Personally, I do not see any "unfairness" in adding any of these guys. Blms have meteor, this can be removed and replaced with the beast only version (Ecliptic meteor).

[Glamdring]

@WoW, actually, quite a few of those were discussed awhile back when they actually polled us about what jugs we would like added, Scorp ALMOST made it, and Ruszor and Opo were under serious discussion (I was holding out for a Hecteyes, I wanted 1 good jug for magic mobs). as I recall they shut down Behemoth for some reason. and we actually have an adamantoise, he just capped at 99 and didn't have a very long useful life in the game (not to mention being STUPID expensive).

[WoW]

Yea^^ i recall the ruszor, opo, and scorpion being mentioned; secretly, I hoped they would have released the others by now . Raphie was one of our better pets imo^^ He was missing headbutt and earth breathe though . Originally, i thought he was missing Testudo Tremor, but that is a ferromantoise move; one of those would be awesome.

Hopefully they take their time with the new implied batch. SE appears to have something against damaging monsters.

I am still salty by the announcement of no dragons, considering we can charm one. I am not entirely convinced that Naul -esque pets are a no-go. That explanation only pertained to bst, because other jobs specialize in an overlapping fashion. Also, if they announce some crappy repeat pets, that will suck even more.

Also, i don't see why certain monsters are off limits/shutdown, blu has access to legendary monster moves, thunderbolt, absolute terror, etc. In essence, specialization can overlap, not for bst tho. Thanks for the clarification SE .