Rate of Leveling and the New Player Experience

[Tohihroyu]

Ahh just look at the river of elitist tears flow!


Maybe just maybe if you played the game without your little cheats you'd learn how to properly play instead of relying on a program to swap your gear every nano second. Oh I forgot without windower and/or bots you elitists would not know how to hit a bee in north gustaberg-- I mean for gods sake every update you all scramble like flies on shit to find out what updates "broke" so it can quickly be fixed.

Bring on the "casual" friendly updates, maybe it'll drive more elitists to Q_Quit. They did a great thing by nerfing the haks to at least got rid of fishbotters (till they find some other alternative that'll take years to get nerfed)

As for some who might get pissy cause I use .dat mods

They unless you delete files (Nyzul isle lamps to cheat climbs or flies to bot claim the kings faster than the other elitists bot before the ???'s where added) do no harm, only the player see's the change and make some things in game look nicer or less plain. At worst .dat modding can cause the game to crash if too many "HQ" mods are used. I talked to a GM in the past about it, as long as it gives no advantage to you against other players (I.E. deleting the nyzul lamps and mobs surrounding HNM kings before the ???'s ) its allowed cause again only you see the changes and you alone.

And those saying 14 sucks cause "ERRMERGERD ITS LIKE WOW AND ITS CASUAL FRIENDLY!!1!!! STOP HANDING THINGS TO GIMP CASUALS IN 11 BTW!!1!!!!11!!" grow up. Or go back to fapping over the "gimps" you "pwn"

Edit: Oh look elitists already replying. You see unlike you I don't need Windower or bots to play "properly" you might as well say you play non MMO games with Action Replay & Gameshark always on so you can cheat to the top....oh wait you already do that pretty much! to get the high scores against "lol console players" and lag the shit out of them so your team wins.

[Draylo]

The storys for the jobs and AF lines are pretty good for some of them... Even FFXIV has quests for theirs, you are asking them to dumb it down too much.

[Castanica]

The storys for the jobs and AF lines are pretty good for some of them... Even FFXIV has quests for theirs, you are asking them to dumb it down too much.

Most "new players" are going to be returnees, they have seen them all before.

I've unlocked every job and taken them all (almost to 99) years ago, as a returnee with a new char I really don't wanna do all that again, or if they do at least streamline it to the minimum. run to point a, click b, click through 2 lines of text, goto point c, etc.

I like many things in FFXI but the immense time wasting is not one of them. Unlocking dancer for instance isn't just the fun story it's the immense amount of trekking around and reading guides to do it. Die on the way? back you go!

When you get home from work to put a few hours into the game you don't want to spend hours unlocking a job and have no "fun" time.

I remember reading about some changes to atma a while ago, can anyone tell me if you still unlock the atmas as you used to or has it been changed now? If you still have to unlock them all I guess I won't be getting into aby at 75.

[Castanica]

I wish the new devs would ask for feedback from actual new players and returnees, I post here knowing full well they will never read it.

I hated playing XIV but at least the devs took notice to the responses of their players, amazingly so.

[Mitruya]

I started a mule to help with gil, inventory, sparks, etc. and I have to agree, the thought of all the grinds and gates all over again is not appealing at all so he will probably stay a low-level undergeared mule.
The reduction of time between quests, the door key items, and the increased travel options have been a good start; but there is a gracious plenty of things they could streamline so you can actually play instead of going through menu hell or whatever.

Also I agree with Draylo somewhat, as scaled content for less players has killed grouping. It just leads to more job exclusivity and more casuals that don't get the clears and drops they need. People are so obsessed with greed and success that there's no incentive to carry lesser players along.

[AppropriateName5786]

Also I agree with Draylo somewhat, as scaled content for less players has killed grouping. It just leads to more job exclusivity and more casuals that don't get the clears and drops they need. People are so obsessed with greed and success that there's no incentive to carry lesser players along.

This is kind of off-topic, but he actually advocates alliance content for the sake of it being alliance content because, when you have the right circle of friends, that's the only way you get to feel special. That kind of content serves no purpose other than to pander to an inconsequential minority.

I think you agree with how job exclusivity sucks, as any sensible person would, but that stems solely from lack of job balance and has zilch to do with scaled content. If job balance were as close to perfect as theoretically possible, who would care if you did 6-man Delve with a RDM healer, GEO solo buffer, and DRG/DNC/BST/PUP as DD? What a perfect FFXI that would be, where you could always play your favorite job, and as long as a healer (WHM SCH RDM), a buffer (COR GEO BRD SMN RDM), and enough DDs were willing to go, you would have a party ready.

Right now, it's always WHM, BRD, PLD, MNK, RNG, SAM or gtfo because job balance is utterly non-existent, and every other job simply doesn't cut it for their respective roles. Hope I understood your line of thought correctly.

[Mitruya]

Yes, I agree, I may be confusing job balance and scaled content as contributing to the same problem. I was just thinking that smaller groups = less jobs that can go and still get the job done, less incentive to bring along someone for the clear or whatever, less and less shouts or events organized.
I understood part of Draylo's point to say that rewards are the same whether you take 6 or 18, so if 3 people and their mules can get the same drops why try to squeeze in 18 to fight over the same lots.

[Olor]

Mules are only usable in place of real players in serious content because of 3rd party programs. Frankly, it's part of the "not taking" people problem. The problem boils down to people being selfish though. SE shouldn't let people blatantly brag about cheating with zero consequences, it's certainly doing nothing to help the game. Yeah if the only way to get content done is to use 3rd party programs and have 2 accounts it does nothing to attract and keep new players playing. It's toxic.

No one is forcing Draylo to take mules instead of players. Frankly, I'm disgusted he can come on the official website and constantly brag about using third party tools with zero consequences. (Or "complaining" that he takes mules instead of inviting real players to parties)

I recognize that banning everyone who uses 3rd party tools at this point would annihilate the playerbase - and I know my viewpoints on them are not popular, but there needs to be some action taken so that it doesn't devolve further into "no 3rd party tools? No invite" than it already has.

I don't even blame most people who use them, when it takes 3 macros for me to cast a spell and they can cast with one button press or a specialized keystroke that does all their gear changes for them, it certainly enhances their performance so it can meet the standards that players set for each other... but I do blame SE for not sending a clearer message that once they have implemented gearsets etc they will no longer be tolerating tools that automate gearchanges outside the game.

Or they need to just link to windower from the official website and make it clear that in order to play competitively you'll need to use it. The status quo, where spellcast and other 3rd party tools that automate gear changes are officially against the rules but people feel comfortable enough breaking the rules to all but brag they are using it on the official forum... it's not sustainable. Those tools are a big part of what's dividing the playerbase.

Not everyone wants to have to write xml scripts to play this game seriously. No one should have to, since, officially, they are against the rules.

I think this is part of the balancing problem too. SE is busy scaling the game against what the "best" players can do, but I think you'd see if you looked that all those players are using 3rd party tools. So the game gets scaled against people who are running a program that automatically switches your gear for you when you reach certain HP levels or MP levels or w/e ... The rest of us have to make judgement calls and press several buttons.

While the gearsets will help even this out - it won't eliminate it completely. Even having to swap palettes and stuff is a great way to lose valuable time. People using these tools can just type a couple letters and bam! they are reacting.

[Feary]

Mules are only usable in place of real players in serious content because of 3rd party programs. Frankly, it's part of the "not taking" people problem. The problem boils down to people being selfish though. SE shouldn't let people blatantly brag about cheating with zero consequences, it's certainly doing nothing to help the game. Yeah if the only way to get content done is to use 3rd party programs and have 2 accounts it does nothing to attract and keep new players playing. It's toxic.

No one is forcing Draylo to take mules instead of players. Frankly, I'm disgusted he can come on the official website and constantly brag about using third party tools with zero consequences. (Or "complaining" that he takes mules instead of inviting real players to parties)

I recognize that banning everyone who uses 3rd party tools at this point would annihilate the playerbase - and I know my viewpoints on them are not popular, but there needs to be some action taken so that it doesn't devolve further into "no 3rd party tools? No invite" than it already has.

I don't even blame most people who use them, when it takes 3 macros for me to cast a spell and they can cast with one button press or a specialized keystroke that does all their gear changes for them, it certainly enhances their performance so it can meet the standards that players set for each other... but I do blame SE for not sending a clearer message that once they have implemented gearsets etc they will no longer be tolerating tools that automate gearchanges outside the game.

Or they need to just link to windower from the official website and make it clear that in order to play competitively you'll need to use it. The status quo, where spellcast and other 3rd party tools that automate gear changes are officially against the rules but people feel comfortable enough breaking the rules to all but brag they are using it on the official forum... it's not sustainable. Those tools are a big part of what's dividing the playerbase.

Not everyone wants to have to write xml scripts to play this game seriously. No one should have to, since, officially, they are against the rules.

I think this is part of the balancing problem too. SE is busy scaling the game against what the "best" players can do, but I think you'd see if you looked that all those players are using 3rd party tools. So the game gets scaled against people who are running a program that automatically switches your gear for you when you reach certain HP levels or MP levels or w/e ... The rest of us have to make judgement calls and press several buttons.

While the gearsets will help even this out - it won't eliminate it completely. Even having to swap palettes and stuff is a great way to lose valuable time. People using these tools can just type a couple letters and bam! they are reacting.

When i starting play the game in 2004, i had it for ps2 and pc. i dual-boxed and played alts before 3rd party tools.

i dont take kindly to these assumptions.

also mules are characters on the same account used to store items.

alts are characters you use to play with for content. as i type this im in a party with a bard who has terpender and doesnt use the new +song horn. seriously ppl just dont complain about imcompetence to feel better about themselves. you dont need 3rd party tools to switch 1 instrument. these are the example you defend with statements like that.

you use alts when you dont want to deal with the brd who cant complete a rotation or sings weak ass songs and not shouting for 3 hours to do an 6man aa fight because you missed the curve.

who the hell WANTS to level and control two players. i mean yes it nice to have. but really? i think this big part is also really lost in translation. yes they may say "haha i can do it by myself", however that shit is taxing.

so Olor get over yourself, it has nothing to do with what you have or use, its about what needs to be added.

Matsui said there is no right or wrong when it comes to type of content for new and old players. which makes the point of Draylo correct, we need more balance in the type of content available to play. 10 years there was leveling for 6 man and endgame for linkshell. it wasnt balanced. today there is endgame for 6man and leveling for solo. its taken 180. its still isnt balanced.

if it werent for these asshat elitest cheaters, i wouldnt have known better and would still be a gimp ass console player who journey would of ended back in 2005 at bibiki bay.

these players given us alot of information, skill, technique that would of never been possible to figure out.

[Feary]

just for the record. i hate botters as much as you do. i cant stand the existence of fish botting, farm botting and worm pt bots etc. anything that allow you to play away from your computer, just arent ok, they should rot in hell for it.

however, as for those who use addons that just enhancing features, i dont think there is anything wrong with it. they have morals and standards and work very hard to keep them. you may not agree with it, however i think the real problem is the player's with dipshit attitudes that has rubbed you the wrong way. it seems me like you are bitter old man, the only way you can get back at these players is by hating the game. which is in no way worth it, infact i would say imo that its irrational because of the things listed above.

as for those players who can do everything, and the play the game so well.
like matsui said and as i believe, it would be in the game best interest for s.e to accommodate both type players so stop fighting with each other.

the real problem is S.E cant do both, they have proven time and time again that they can only develop and release at a pace that is either for one or the other. ironically, they have become accustom to switching sides. slowing down the dfferent types of updates to keep the game at a steady pace. every time we get use to one side, we get hit with the other. giving us a whole new experience/spectrum and always something to strive/improve upon.